Sam, Many thanks. I had been trying to figure out how best to respond to Jordi's note but you have covered everything I would have wanted to say and far better than I could have done so. --On Friday, March 29, 2019 22:43 -0400 Sam Hartman <hartmans-ietf@xxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>> "JORDI" == JORDI PALET MARTINEZ >>>>>> <jordi.palet=40consulintel.es@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes: > > JORDI> I don't think this is something to be handled > in private > JORDI> messages. Those cases should be > publicly exposed and point > JORDI> to specific names, so > the rest of us take our own personal > JORDI> decisions on > those folks in addition to IETF actions. > Please follow your own antiharassment procedure. As Dave > Crocker pointed out during the development of the BCP in > question, there are some (non-addressed) problems with it. > Still, it's far better than what you propose above. > > Victims of harassment often don't want their experience > dragged through the consensus judgment process of the IETF. > Theey don't want the details of a difficult and painful > experience exposed and debated on a public list. Theyalmost > certainly don't want to face the inevitable victim blaiming > and debating of whether they or the harasser are more > reasonable. They don't want to watch the debate about whether > the harasser is so valuable to the organization that their > behavior *has to be* accepted. > > And speaking from personal experience as a victim, some of the > time you don't even want to see people dragged through the > mud. Some of the time people do improve and understand why > what they are doing is problematic. Or some of the time they > are your friends and you just don't want to be the one who > causes that mess to land on them. And yes, you have to > evaluate your silence against the potential that someone else > will get hurt, and yes that tradeoff sucks. But people make it > every day. > And denying them that option is both inconsistent with your > policies and with approaching the realities of > harassment/bullying with compassion. > > I'd say that the last time I was tracking the IETF closely, it > was behind the curve in approaching some of these issues. > Doubtless things are better now, but it seems inevitable that > to some degree or another the sorts of problems I raise will > absolutely come up if details become public. > Absolutely if victims want to come forward and tell their > story, they should be able to do so. > Demanding or expecting that lacks compassion. > > I may sound a bit worked up here. Debian has been facing > similar issues where some names did come forward (at least in > private) earlier this year. Everything you can imagine > happened. > > Or for another data point take a look at > https://crystalhuff.com/2018/10/25/why-im-not-at-arisia-anymor > e-my-rapist-is-president-again/ a frank and well written > discussion of what happened to one victim who came forward and > discussed her rape at the hands of one of the officers of a > local science fiction convention. > > Thanks for your consideration,- > > --Sam
