Re: Do you really not care whether people accept your mail?

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On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 12:00:20PM +0100, Philip Homburg wrote:
> >On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:38 AM, Philip Homburg <pch-ietf-6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >wrote:
> >> In my experience, essentially no mail gets lost if you leave out SPF, DKIM,
> >> DMARC. The only exception is gmail that occasionally rejects e-mail.
> >
> >"no mail gets lost" != "gmail occasionally rejects my mail"
> 
> What I meant to write is that when I take all e-mail targets that I send e-mail
> to, leaving out gmail, then sending mail without SPF, DKIM, DMARC works just
> fine.
> 
> Gmail is an exception because it seems that gmail is broken if you deliver
> mail without SPF, etc. over IPv6 to gmail. That's unique to gmail.

The problem is twofold: a) gmail has a huge number of mailboxes, so if
you can't deliver to them without SPF/DKIM/DMARC, then your mail truly
is broken, b) they could be setting the rule, so that even if you don't
mind (a), you soon will feel the pain.

> So if your outgoing mail doesn't have SPF, etc. and you do have IPv6, then
> you have to think about what to do with gmail.

As a user, when I send email, I don't want to think about this sort of
thing.  An admin has to think about this sort of thing, and it's looking
a lot like email is nowhere near the relatively easy service to run that
it was in the 90s.

> In some sense it is amazing how reliable e-mail is. E-mail seems to be
> reliable enough that gmail rejecting the occasional e-mail immediately
> makes it the most unreliable e-mail provider (for my e-mail). 
> That's also an amazing success story.

Well, I adore email, and email lists.  Screw the haters.  But it's true
that we have a problem, and if we don't manage it then email will be
obsolete and I'll be sad.

> >Do you imagine that you may be making different choices than others?
> 
> Imagine that some will be making different chocies than me, yes.

Balkanizing email doesn't sound very good to me.

Nico
-- 




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