Theodore Ts'o < tytso@xxxxxxx> wrote: IBM deciding to invest a billion dollars in Linux). If you wanted to interact with the rest of the Linux Community, you weren't going to be using Lotus Notes. And guess what; an alternative was provided. It had nothing to do with Linux being a cult. It had to do with a very simple business decision.
I really do believe the IETF is underestimating how much power it has; even if it can't move the big consumer mail providers, developers who want to interact with the IETF will find a way.... and if not, maybe the IETF doesn't have the power to be an effective standards organization any more. (Which certainly seems to be true in the e-mail space, anyway....)
+10. We are very important, far more important than we often realize.
We have power - power over our participants. Not power over any of the major players or even our participants’ employers. This is why I have pushed over and over again for us to do something sane. (If that means you can't participate in NOMCOM if your company can't get email to work, then that's okay with me. We also insist they their network byte order correct.) If I can't hear from companies with a p=reject policy via ietf.org lists, then I simply don't care.
We don’t hear from companies; we hear from individuals. I care about input from people from Microsoft and Google. I know some working groups where they make up most of the editors. Yes, we can tell them to go get some gmail.com or live.com accounts. That’s adding yet another layer of inconvenience. I have work to do. I already delete emails from people who can't quote sanely.
So Outlook users are out as well? If it's a mess on my screen, it's probably a mess in their head too. Their opinions just aren't taken into account by me. Sorry: "You must be this tall to ride this ride"
BUT, if their email bouncing kicks me off the list, then I will be very grumpy. My spam filtering provider provides me controls to ignore p=reject when arriving from certain origins, but this doesn't scale well. I'd rather the IETF implemented DMARC properly and rejected the email from arriving at the list. Or the IETF can repudiate DMARC completely. To me, it's the IESG's choice, but this sitting on the fence for four years pissed me off.
Or we could provide a very basic MTA under ietf.org. Word on the street is that it’s simple enough that even a politician can handle it.
Yoav
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