Mike, >I'm going to go off on a tangent. This is only peripherally related to >the other topic. >One of the other things that comes up with the IETF from time to time is >how to make the IETF more open and welcoming to newcomers. The IETF has >a *lot* of unwritten rules - perhaps more than most organizations. >*IMHO*, that may make it more difficult for newcomers to figure out how >things work and where they can push or pull to effect change - there's a >lot of anecdotal evidence that this may be the case. I would also tend >to believe that written rules with plain meanings (that are mostly >followed) tend to level the playing field for those just joining. >(A quick google search - "written vs unwritten rules newcomers" finds >http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/battah-workplace-rules-1.3274856 >for example - there are a lot of others in this space) >So I'm not so sure that the above is a universal truth. Both you and >Andrew (and me FWIW) are long term participants and tend to know where >the levers are. I wonder if those just joining us would agree? The question of "unwritten rules" comes up in the mentoring program quite a bit, so I wrote the following: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ietf-unwritten-rules-values/ Would love to have your comments, Nalini Elkins IETF Mentoring Program