I'm happy to see Adrian pointing out that this is an update, not a de
novo policy.
I'm not so happy to see that the IESG didn't include this information
(and a "what's changed" summary) in the announcement.
Attached is a wdiff (with some line formatting added by me).
Important points:
- Formatting: Face-to-face and virtual meetings each get their own
bulleted list of requirements.
- More positive noises about mailing lists in the introduction.
- Acknowledgement that some WGs hold bi-weekly or even weekly interims
- An expectation that virtual interims will become more commonplace over
time
- A statement that the rules in this statmement "must be obeyed"
- New rules for approving extended sequences of virtual meetings
- Virtual meetings get shorter timelines (4->1 week for announcement,
2->1 week for agenda)
- Uploading to the datatracker of minutes get mentioned
The biggest deal seems to me to be that virtual meetings in series
(right up to weekly!!!!) are now a blessed IETF procedure.
Personally, I feel that weekly meetings can be *very* effective - but
they are also *very* exclusionary. The number of people in a working
group who can tolerate another weekly phone call in the average working
group is likely counted on one hand - perhaps two if the WG is intensely
popular - and these will usually be the people who are already full time
committed to the design that is being pursued.
My impression is that we should call these meetings "editor meetings",
"design team meetings" or something else - but expecting a *WG* to show
up at weekly phonecalls is a Really Bad Idea, and we shouldn't encorage
more WGs adopting such a practice.
Harald
Guidance on [-Interim Meetings, Conference Calls-] {+Face-to-Face+} and [-Jabber Sessions-] {+Virtual Interim Meetings+}
Date: [-2 Sep 2008-] {+today+}
This statement provides IESG guidance on interim IETF [-Working
Group-] {+working group+} meetings, [-conference calls,-] {+both
face-to-face+} and [-jabber sessions.-] {+virtual.+}
Historically the work of the IETF has been conducted over mailing
lists. This practice ensures the widest possible involvement in the
working group process. This practice [-is not as efficient in terms-]
{+allows more in-depth analysis+} of [-producing specifications as-]
{+proposals than+} extended face-to-face meetings [-but-] {+and+} is
much more inclusive. In general IETF face-to-face meetings are used to
hold high-bandwidth discussions on specific issues that have not been
able to be resolved on a mailing list or, in the case of BOFs, to get
a common understanding of the issues involved in a particular
topic. These face-to-face meetings can be quite important but are not
substitutes for mailing list discussions.
There is a long history in the IETF of working groups occasionally
holding "interim" face-to-face meetings between the regular IETF
meetings to focus on specific issues or resolve specific problems.
[-Some IETF-] {+Interim face-to-face meetings can consume a lot of
community resources, including travel costs and time of
participants. When considering whether to approve an interim
face-to-face meeting, area Directors are expected to balance the costs
to the community associated with interim meetings and the expected
benefits. Also, we have seen significant benefits when two or more+}
working groups [-hold-] {+meet together. Interim face-to-face meetings
which are proposed to eliminate the need for a working group to meet
during a regular IETF meeting will not generally be approved.
Working group chairs should propose+} interim [-conference-]
{+face-to-face meeting logistics concerning location, timing, and
remote participation to maximize meeting participation among WG
participants.
The Secretariat is available to help with logistics of face-to-face
interim meetings. Of course, the larger the meeting, the more lead
time is needed to make arrangements.
Virtual interim meetings (conference+} calls [-or-] {+and+} jabber
[-sessions in lieu of-] {+sessions) are commonly used by working
groups: some working groups organize bi-weekly, or even weekly virtual
meetings. Those virtual+} interim [-face-to-face-] meetings {+prove
very useful+} and [-to accelerate-] {+productive in accelerating+} the
working group process. {+Virtual interim meetings are an integral part
of the IETF way of working and are expected to become more commonplace
over time.+}
RFC 2418 section 3.1 [-tell-] {+tells+} us that "interim meetings are
subject to the same rules for advance notification, reporting, open
participation, and process, which apply to other [-working group
meetings."-] {+Working Group meetings".+} This applies to all
[-in-person-] {+face-to-face+} meetings to which a large part of the
working group is invited, even if labeled as 'informal' to distinguish
them from 'real' working group meetings. This does not apply to
meetings, conference calls, or jabber sessions for small design teams
producing input to working groups. [-It should also be noted-]
{+Virtual interim meetings have other rules+} that {+must be obeyed,+}
as [-RFC 2418 section 3.2 points out, decisions at-] {+specified in
this IESG statement.
Extended sequences of virtual interim+} meetings [-(normal,
interim. conference call, or jabber session) are not final and must-]
{+should+} be [-reviewed on-] the [-mailing list.
"Advance notification"-] {+exception+} and [-"process" require prior
approval of the face-to-face meeting by-] {+not+} the [-relevant Area
Director-] {+norm as they might exclude participants+} and
[-publication of an announcement-] {+might leave a less complete
record, depending+} on {+how complete+} the [-ietf-announce
list. "Advance notification" and "process" require prior approval by-]
{+meeting minutes are. Where working group chairs wish to schedule a
sequence of more than four virtual interims,+} the [-Working Group
Chair for the conference call (either audio or video) or jabber
session and publication of an announcement on the ietf-announce
list. Face-to-face meetings must be announced at least four weeks
prior to the meeting. Conference calls and jabber sessions must be
announced at least two weeks prior to the event. Following
announcement, an agenda for the meeting, call, or session must be
published in a timely manner. All such meetings, calls, or sessions
must be open to all who wish to take part. Detailed minutes are
required to be taken and submitted to the IETF Secretariat for
inclusion in the next IETF meeting proceedings. A list of attendees-]
{+chairs+} must [-also be submitted. The minutes, including a list of
attendees, must be sent to proceedings@xxxxxxxx within 10 days after
the meeting, conference call or jabber session concludes.
Area Director approval is needed to schedule an interim face-to-face
meeting. Interim meetings can consume a lot of community resources,
including travel costs and time of participants. Also, we have seen
significant benefits when two or more working groups meet
together. Area Directors are expected to balance the costs to the
community associated with interim meetings and the expected
benifits. Interim face-to-face meetings which are proposed to
eliminate-] {+explicitly set out+} the [-need-] {+reasoning+} for [-a
working group to meet during a regular IETF meeting will not generally
be approved.
Working Group Chair approval is needed to schedule a conference call
or jabber session.
Area Directors will advise the Working Group Chair on interim
face-to-face meeting location, timing, and other aspects of the
proposed meeting-] that [-with-] {+in+} a [-goal of not unfairly
favoring some subset of the potential participants or not unfairly
biasing the working group discussions. Working Group Chairs will
evaluate the proposed conference call or jabber session logistics for
similar fairness concerns, consulting with Area Directors as necessary
to resolve any concerns raised by potential participants.
Requests for interim face-to-face meetings must be sent to the
appropriate Area Director for approval. The actual announcement text
must be sent to iesg-secretary@xxxxxxxx as well as the working group
mail list. Of course, the requesting Working Group Chair may send one
message, copying both the Area Director and
iesg-secretary@xxxxxxxx. Following Area Director approval, the
Secretariat will publish the announcement on the ietf-announce list.
The Secretariat is available to help with logistics of face-to-face
interim meetings. Of course, the larger the meeting, the more lead
time is needed to make arrangements.
Working Group Chairs must send announcement text for an interim
conference call or jabber session-] {+mail+} to
[-iesg-secretary@xxxxxxxx as well as-] the {+list and check that there
is rough consensus for that plan. Such extended sequences also require
AD approval.
Occasionally+} working group [-mail list.-] {+chairs or ADs might help
organize meetings to discuss vulnerabilities discovered in IETF
protocols or implementations. Those are not WG meetings and hence not
described here.+}
The [-Secretariat will publish the announcement on the ietf-announce list.
To summarize:
Interim-] {+guidelines for interim meetings are as follows
- For+} face-to-face {+interim+} meetings of IETF [-Working Groups-] {+working
groups:
- The meetings+} need prior approval of relevant [-ADs Interim
conference calls and jabber sessions of IETF Working Groups need prior
approval of the Working Group Chair Face-to-face-] {+AD(s).
- The meetings must be scheduled (location/timing) with fair access for all
working group participants.
- The+} meetings must be announced at
least four weeks [-prior to the meeting, and-] {+before+} the
{+meeting.
- The+} agenda must be published at least two weeks before
[-meeting Face-to-face meetings-] {+meeting.
- Announcement text+}
must be [-scheduled (location/timing) with fair access-] {+sent to
iesg-secretary@xxxxxxxx+} for [-all WG participants Conference calls
and jabber sessions-] {+IETF-wide announcement.
- Detailed minutes,
including a list of attendees,+} must be [-announced-] {+sent to the
working group mailing list and, within 10 days of the event (and+} at
least [-two weeks prior-] {+48 hours before subsequent meeting),
uploaded+} to the [-call-] {+Interim Proceedings Tool
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/secr/proceedings/interim/>+} or
[-session, and-] {+sent to proceedings@xxxxxxxx.
- For virtual interim meetings of IETF working groups:
- The meetings are scheduled by+} the [-agenda-] {+working group chairs, who should discuss their plans with the responsible AD(s).
- The meetings+} must be {+announced and the agenda+} published at least one week {+(ideally two)+} before {+the+} call or [-session-] {+session.
-+} Announcement text must be [-sent-] {+posted+} to [-iesg-secretary@xxxxxxxx-] {+the relevant working group mailing list(s).
- Recurring meetings (recommended if much debate is expected), may be scheduled together, with a single announcement. A separate agenda, serving as a meeting reminder, should be posted before each recurrence.
-+} Detailed minutes, including a list of attendees, must be sent to [-proceedings@xxxxxxxx and-] the working group [-mail-] {+mailing+} list within 10 days of the event
[-Following-] {+(and at least 48 hours before subsequent meeting), and may optionally be uploaded to+} the [-guidance in-] {+Interim Proceedings Tool <https://datatracker.ietf.org/secr/proceedings/interim/> or sent to proceedings@xxxxxxxx.
- It should also be noted that as+} RFC [-2418,-] {+2418 section 3.2
points out,+} decisions [-reached during interim meetings,-] {+at
meetings (normal, interim.+} conference [-calls, and-] {+call, or+}
jabber [-sessions-] {+session) are not final and must be reviewed+}
on {+the mailing list. Special care needs to be taken with this
for+} topics or issues which have not been discussed on the mailing
list or {+for outcomes that+} are significantly different from
previously arrived mailing list [-consensus must-] {+consensus.
Information on how to set up conference calls can+} be [-reviewed-]
{+found+} on the [-mailing list.-] {+WG Chairs page
(http://www.ietf.org/wg/chairs-page.html).+}