--On Monday, December 22, 2014 17:20 +0200 Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > John, > > What you said is very similar to the input we've been > hearing from both the IESG and IAB. And even Russ and I > understand the difficulties :-) regardless of how well we > managed to succeed in this case. > > For what it is worth, our general policy is based on > establishing IAB or IETF wide formal opinions on topics and > then talking about those, and other kinds of statements should > be rare. For a written version of our policy, se > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/SpeakingForIet > f - feedback appreciated as always. Jari, As I tried to say, I don't know that this example is a huge deal because the statement is mostly innocuous. I gather that was partially due to your efforts and Russ's, for which the community should thank you. It is the principle that concerns me. Where the policy you cite seems to be weak is "what happens when the IETF/IAB people follow the rules but attend a meeting in good faith in which others are not willing to honor those rules". Establishing general for first instances of such cases is probably impossible. I fear that any attempt to do so would hamper us and the exercise of reasonable discretion far more than they would help. I believe you are doing quite well in the exercise of discretion even though "leadership" seems to occasionally get confused with presidential or imperial authority (I think we all learned from Montevideo). If members of the community disagree with that, it is perhaps not too late to tell the Nomcom. However, an old saying in the US may apply to this situation. It goes something like "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me". If, despite your (and Russ's) best efforts, these I* (or other leadership coordination) meetings are going to produce statements that can reasonably be construed as inconsistent with IETF norms, then, whatever the value of such meetings might be, it is time to stop attending --and adding IETF/IAB credibility by your presence-- unless you can get firm guarantees, in advance, about whether statements will be issued and, if they will be, how they are approved. best regards and best holiday wishes, john