On 15 Apr 2014, at 04:56, Scott Kitterman <scott@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Monday, April 14, 2014 14:14:25 Dave Crocker wrote: >> If the community wanted changes to the specification, it had quite a bit >> of opportunity to call for the changes and/or call for doing such work >> in the IETF. > > Not really. As long as change control is outside the IETF and it's normal > processes, outsiders to the core group can call for change and that change can > be accepted or ignored be the insiders in the group with none of the normal > IETF processes that resolve issues and lead to rough consensus. Yes. Basically DMARC was always an outsider effort. The effect of a bunch of very important ESPs (and a bunch of security types) crying "Look! We've solved the email forgery problem!" was to inspire me to look at the spec, shrug it off as yet another FUSSP *, and move on. Does this mean that I have materially failed to contribute? Well maybe, but it means a lot for the spec to be in the IETF where I can point out how broken it is. :) And, to be clear: I respect the goals of the proposal, and will be reasonable in accommodating it. But to suggest that the contortions of the proponents in keeping it from the watchful eye of the IETF weren't in some small way intended to advance DMARC by force in numbers rather than consensus strains credulity, just a tad. Cheers, Sabahattin * https://twitter.com/sgucukoglu/status/174104462758133760