On 14 Apr 2014, at 02:59, Doug Barton <dougb@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Meanwhile, I'm still not proposing that we train users, or even anti-spam software to "recognize" or "validate" mailing list addresses. What I'm proposing is a way to send mail from a list with From: @domain-of-list.tld so that it can pass DMARC/SPF/DKIM, and allow the left side of the @ sign to identify the actual sender of the message. I agree. In fact, I'm resigned to it already. OTOH, you'll find the idea unpopular around here. :) FWIW: I really do believe it is a great shame that DMARC misplaces the burden so profoundly. Also, I've stopped caring--the fact is that given the choice of: 1. Authenticate every message from everybody without discrimination, at the cost of making mailing lists a lot less like they were in the Good Old Days (™) and breaking a ton of compatibility 2. Authenticate only some messages, discriminating personal use from business use (and sending conflicting messages about the trustworthiness of the From: field to regular users) but making mailing lists from 1995 shine I (and I expect lots of people) choose option 1. We only need to upgrade the mailing list servers. The people who run those are supposed to be competent--they can probably manage to upgrade to supported software, or patch what they have. Mailing lists aren't popular any more anyway. And this is a golden opportunity to bring some trust into Internet mail. Let's do it. Cheers, Sabahattin