On 2/24/2014 6:38 AM, John C Klensin wrote:
--On Monday, February 24, 2014 06:13 -0800 Dave Crocker
<dhc@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I'll suggest that that question is primarily ad hominem and
even if it weren't, it's not a particularly helpful line of
response. It doesn't matter what the background is of the
person asking the question.
Dave, FWIW, I disagree, both about the "primarily ad hominem"
suggestion and about the comment about background.
If you or I had made the suggestion, would that affect its merit? We
have extensive IETF meeting experience, but that's irrelevant.
If it's a good suggestion, it doesn't matter who made it.
If it's a bad suggestion, it doesn't matter who made it.
By publicly asking about the background of the person making the
suggestion, the public exchange moves from the merits of the suggestion
to the merits of the person making the suggestion.
Moving focus off of the substance and to the speaker is the essence of
ad hominem. It either explicitly or implicitly is asserting that the
nature of the speaker affects the merit of what is spoken, with the
usual implication that the speaker and their suggestion should be
discounted.
If Lloyd had said "you are a known <NegativeCategory>, therefore
your suggestion should be ignored" that would be primarily an ad
hominem attack.
So it isn't ad hominem unless it is a direct, frontal and coarse
assertion of the false factor? If it is only implied, it doesn't count?
the question about
background seems to me to be relevant. Let me try an analogy
that, given some recent postings, shouldn't be too far afield.
Suppose someone had posted a note to the IETF list or some
meeting list saying "during the upcoming meeting, it is really
important that everyone have a proper traditional English
breakfast". I'd consider "what background, especially in
nutrition and related fields,
You are confusing substance with person.
The question that was asked was not "what is the basis for the
recommendation" but "what is your experience with our meetings". The
former is substance and reasonable. The latter is personal and not.
And this was done in public as an immediate response and without any
other context.
We make this confusion quite a lot in the IETF.
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net