And we see below a perfect illustration of the difficulties that can be caused by codification. Three orthogonal points: - We should be very careful to have only "guidelines" such that it is clear any action based on those guidelines is only taken as a judgement call by an authorized person or group and their is no guarantee any action at all will be taken. Having "rules" or anything that appears to guarantee enforcement and you may find people suing you for failure to take immediate action when the infraction was the most minor or arguable thing. - I am very suspicious of the word "professional". Who knows what the hell it means? Is the previous sentence "unprofessionally" worded? If you think so, good. I typically see "unprofesional" used as a cudgel against the strong expression of opinions the critic does not like when they have no real counter argument to those opinions. Is the April 1st RFC series something a professional group would do? I think not. I don't know that a choice is necessary but I would prefer for the IETF to call itself an "amateur" organization rather than a "professional" organization. - Generally, people should be allowed to comment causticly on others actions but not on their motivations. If I say an action is "obstructive" or whatever, well, that could be a matter of opinion but at least in the open IETF process, people can see the action and might or might not agree with me. If I say an action is "intended to be obstructive", then, unless I am commenting on my own actions or the actor has so stated, I am claiming the ability to mind-read... Thanks, Donald ============================= Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@xxxxxxxxx On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Techno CAT <mars.techno.cat@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > "Calling someone a troll is an ad hominem. We aren't supposed to do that in > the IETF. At least, not publicly."[1] > > "It is rude. > It is bullying." [2] > > HARASSMENT by Brian E Carpenter has been noted for the Legal Record > > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~brian/ > "Network Geeks - How They Built the Internet" > > =========================== > > HARASSMENT by Stephane Bortzmeyer <bortzmeyer at nic.fr> has been noted for > the Legal Record > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg83330.html > > =========================== > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg83360.html > "judgment needs to be applied by the ombudsperson & the rest of the IETF > management > > [1] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg83364.html > [2] http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg83362.html > > "you are encouraged to raise your concern in confidence with one of the > Ombudspersons" > > http://www.intgovforum.org > http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/541/541650477/541650477_201112_990.pdf > > > > On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Brian E Carpenter > <brian.e.carpenter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> Hi Jordi, >> >> We seem to have a new troll using the address mars.techno.cat@xxxxxxxxx >> >> Can you deal with it appropriately, please? >> >> Thanks >> >> Brian >> > > > > -- > > @Techno_CAT_r > http://Twitter.com/Techno_CAT_r