Re: I-D Action: draft-barnes-healthy-food-07.txt

[Mary Barnes <mary.h.barnes@xxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

My point, of course, is not to disparage those with medical conditions, or even those with philosophical/religious convictions.

 

Google shows me a supermarket within 1km of the venue in Dublin. I walked to one while I was there. I also caught the free shuttle to down-town Dublin where I saw several shops.

[MB] The market within walking distance was poorly stocked when I went there.  The only thing I found that I could possibly eat was canned vegetables.    Yes, I did take the shuttle to the city at night for dinner, but that didn't solve the lunch issue at all and the speciality food markets weren't open that late.   Did you subsist on the food that you bought at the supermarket or did you partake of the food that you could eat that was offered at the hotel buffet?    [/MB]

 

I know folk who travel with suitcases of special food.

[MB] Sure. And, in many cases we are violating local laws by bringing food into the country.  Most of the food I carry with me is nuts, pumpkin seeds, dried fruit and some snack bars.  All of those things would be confiscated if I declared them as they have been when I have been searched and they have found them.   I asked someone to bring a packaged food product from Stockholm to me when we were meeting in the US. It got confiscated.  [/MB]

 

It is hard.

We should do what we can to be accommodating.

It should be one of the factors we consider in selecting/briefing a venue.

 

It should not be an over-riding consideration.

[MB] This is the very reason I wrote this document - being able to eat SHOULD be an over-riding consideration for meetings.  That's a basic human requirement for survival.    Certainly, most of us won't die if we have to subsist on nuts, seeds and dried fruit, canned veggies, etc during an IETF meeting.  But, most of us will not function well without proper nutrition, somewhat equivalent to what we are used to on a daily basis.  While, at this point, I might benefit from some fasting, I would never choose a week where I am working 12-16 hours a day to do so. [/MB]  

 

Adrian

 

From: Mary Barnes [mailto:mary.h.barnes@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 16 July 2013 20:49
To: <adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: John C Klensin; <draft-barnes-healthy-food@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <ietf@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-barnes-healthy-food-07.txt

 

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> > Personally, I will strongly try to be vegetarian, but eat meat
> > rather than starve (a situation that arises when travelling).
>

> if a venue is chosen that forces you (or me or others) into
> a "meat or starve" or, much worse, "eat something severely
> damaging to health or beliefs or starve" situation, is that
> really an acceptable venue?

Yes, it is.
If a venue is inconvenient or uncomfortable for a small percentage of "regular"
IETF participants, that does not make it a poor choice of venue.

 

[MB] This is the exact reason I had some stats in the doc previously as it's not as small a percentage as you think.  Also, as the document highlights, in cases of medical conditions, one might consider this to violate the American Disability Act in the US.  Celiac disease, for example, is considered an "invisible" disability in the US.  One can debate whether or not IETF/ISOC must comply with the American Disability Act, but as I have posited IETF claims to be an open organization so I would think they would want the meetings to be accessible to all, which means ensuring there is food readily available to accommodate those with dietary restrictions.

 

The example of your situation is a matter of personal choice.  For some of us it can be a matter of life or death (e.g., peanut allergies).  [/MB]

 

We might as well go back to the debate about location: only a venue that is a
convenient 10 minutes from my home is really a suitable venue.

I venture that "starve" is never a real outcome, but "go to a supermarket" or
"bring food in your luggage" are alternatives that need some planning and are a
small inconvenience.

[MB] I already responded to this one, but I'll go ahead again, because this attitude is the reason why I wrote this document after Dublin.  There was no supermarket near the venue at all, thus that wasn't possible.  I did the right thing and checked out the hotel restaurants on the Sunday before the meeting started and found they could easily accommodate my GF diet. However, at Monday lunchtime we could not order off the menu and were given something like 3 choices of entrees.  The staff serving the food had no idea about preparation.  Folks that are vegan/vegetarian/kosher couldn't even eat the french fries because they couldn't be certain whether they were cooked in a meat based oil or vegetable oil.    I have celiac and thus I cannot eat anything unless I have a very high level of confidence that it is gluten free - my reaction can be extremely severe and at it's mildest, it's like having a miserable 24 hour flu.  [/MB]

Adrian