On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Dave Crocker <dhc@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 1/30/2013 1:15 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
>> I do agree with
>> Spencer that getting consensus for a process change always looks like a
>> formidable task. Small changes never address enough of the problem or the
>> right
>> piece of the problem. Large changes are too much in one go. :-) So, it
>> seems to
>> be increasingly hard to make changes to our process.
>
> I suspect it's not 'increasingly' but rather that it's always been extremely
> difficult...
>
> Let me suggest a different possibility for the challenge in this topic:
>
> We are a diverse community. Absent very, very strong consensus that a
> problem is serious enough to warrant a change, the community is not likely
> to line up automatically behind a proposal. We will always have some people
> who prefer no change and some who offer their different, favorite
> approaches, or and some who offer a zillion tweaks. In the aggregate, that
> makes for entropy, not consensus.
"It ought to be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to
take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its
success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of
things. Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done
well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may
do well under the new."
Niccolo Machiavelli
Donald
=============================
Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
d3e3e3@xxxxxxxxx
> What makes this process different from what we see in successful
> working groups?
>
> I think there are two things:
>
> 1. A wg has a committed core of participants who have agreed on a common
> goal.
>
> 2. A wg process is managed.
>
> On the average, proposals for IETF process change benefit from neither of
> these.
>
> Hence I suggest that a proposal needs to recruit a committed core /before/
> going public, and the discussion needs classic group facilitation, in terms
> of tracking issues, maintaining focus, and pursuing consensus.
>
> d/
>
> --
> Dave Crocker
> Brandenburg InternetWorking
> bbiw.net