> fighting fiefdoms is a waste of time. the answer is to shut them the > hell down. a friend asked (to put it politely:-) me to clarify. [ first, mea multi culpea, i helped start and/or served on the board (or equivalent) of a number of the organizations against which i rail. consider me the loyal opposition. but i try, as we say, to work for the internet. ] when people's livelihoods depend on an organization's existence, self- interest is inevitable. no blame, we're all just funny monkeys. there are no evil players here, just humans. it's not their fault, it is ours for creating and allowing it. yes, we need the ir function fulfilled. but i have become more and more sceptical that we need six organizations doing it. and organizations with large staff. we have built a privileged regulatory class. when you have a large building, half a dozen 'coffee ladies' on staff, or a bunch of lawyers, then it's time for a revolution. the ietf and nanog outsource out all services in arms' length contracts. this has responsibility and accountability built in [0]. yes, all organizations are self perpetuating, but i prefer the model where no one is paid (directly [1]). and i much prefer the ietf's nomcom model, which ameliorates the board election game of the irs, nanog, etc, which are beauty contests and do not serve the community well. imiho, the beauty contests, the paid fiefdoms, and the lawyers have led us from the bookkeeping model to the regulatory. randy -- [0] - Accountability is something that is left when responsibility has been subtracted. -- Pasi Sahlberg [1] - http://archive.psg.com/051000.ccr-ivtf.pdf