Hello, On 11/16/12 1:27 AM, John Levine wrote: >> Shall we move on? > > Sure. Since we agree that there is no way to pay for the extra costs > involved in meeting in places where there are insignificant numbers of > IETF participants, it won't happen, and we're done. > I don't remember when I agreed with that. In fact I believe quite the opposite holds. If there was a will there would be ways. However, what I read here is a lot of refusal, denial and roadblocking. I can't speak for other regions, but from ours, there are at least four organizations which manage significant budgets, have been in the conference organization business for more than 10 years, and which would be very interested in having an IETF in Latin America. The feeling I kept receiving here is that there is a kernel of IETFers who still believe that IETF is some kind of ivory tower that exists by itself, for itself and is self-sufficient. Big news: this is no longer the case. For bad but, IMO, mostly for good. The IETF is one more component of the complex ecosystem of Internet governance. A critical one, but not the only one. If you reach out to the balcony of the ivory tower, you will see that the IETF has plenty of enemies, but, also plenty of friends and allies. Moving the IETF forward will involve reaching out to other peoples, other regions, and yes, travel farther away once in a while. I also understand that we need to do our part in terms of fostering and increasing the contribution of our region. I said this in an earlier email and I stand by it. Reach out to your friends and allies. We all want the whole multi-stakeholder approach to succeed, we are all on the same boat and we definitely need to move the IETF forward in order to do that. Don't get me wrong: I get where most of this resistance is coming from, and I sort of agree that newcomers need to prove themselves. But instead of roadblocking and refusal I would have hoped to see something along the lines of: - What is a reasonable goal in terms of participation, so that having a meeting in Latin America is actually meaningful?: "X attendees from the region and Y people actively participating in mailing lists and contributing text" - After that, set the goal: "The IETF will hold a meeting in Latin America in the next four to five years" - What does the IETF to do that?: "The IETF needs partners to pledge X $ in sponsorship funds", or whatever else. - Reach out to your allies in the region. If we could agree on a basis set of participation principles, on metrics and on development goals, we will be a much stronger organization. regards, ~Carlos > That was simple, wasn't it? >