Amending one line On 11/11/12, Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > The important question is how many users of the Internet now are > spreed in the world, and should the IETF consider making attending > easier to users than to old participants? Is n't three meeting events > in America per two years enough as you mentioned 51% participants are > from America, as IETF meet 4 times a year? as IETF meet 6 times per two years? > > Now 66% of meetings is done in America, which I think it should be > less or equal to 50%. > > AB > > On 11/9/12, Yoav Nir <ynir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> On Nov 9, 2012, at 9:31 AM, Abdussalam Baryun wrote: >> >>>>> There is a direct contribution of US $2.2 million by the Internet >>>>> Society next year. Is the plan to rely on Internet Society subsidies >>>>> or to fix the deficit? One argument made was that the fees have not >>>>> been increased over the last years. I'll point out that there hasn't >>>>> been significant increase in paid attendance over the years. Either >>>>> the IETF is only relevant to the usual folks or else the meetings are >>>>> not made relevant enough for (new) people to attend. >>> >>> I am newcomer and not able to attend because most of meeting in >>> America instead of Europe. >> >> Adding US and Canada attendees (I counted last week, might have changed >> slightly) you get to about 51% of the attendees. >> When meetings are held in other parts of the world (like Taipei, Paris or >> Prague) Americans still make up over 40% of the attendees. >> Much as I prefer 4-hour flights to 12-hour flights, it minimizes the >> general >> pain to hold meetings in America. >> There's also the issue that finding good venues is considerably easier in >> America than in either Europe or Asia >> >>>> I am repeatedly struck by how many new people *do* attend. >>>> >>> >>> I don't know how long do they remain, for me I am feeling disapointed. >> >> Some come back, and some don't. Could you expand on what you're >> disappointed >> about? >> >>>> According to Russ's slides [1] 195/1098 are newcomers. And just to >>>> labour >>>> the >>>> point, a newcomer is not a returnee after 10 years, but someone who has >>>> never >>>> attended before. >>> >>> hope treated equal with all participants, >> >> The new attendee, same as the old attendee gets to have everyone shut up >> when they go to the mike. If you have a draft and a relevant >> presentation, >> you can usually get time at a WG meeting regardless of how many meetings >> you've attended. Knowing that you should do these things is the learning >> curve that every one of us must go through. >> >>>> This number (around 10%) seems consistent over all meetings. So >>>> naively, >>>> we >>>> should be growing our attendance by around 300 per year. >>>> >>> >>> agree >> >> But as both you and Adrian Farrel said, a lot of these don't come back. >> Maybe a more relevant statistic for the churn would be to count the >> third-time attendees. >> >> Millions of people go sailing for the first time each year. A huge >> proportion of those get sea sick or bored, and never do it again. That's >> not >> a useful metric to assess the size of the sailing community. >> >>>> That we are not reflects our inability to retain, not our inability to >>>> attract >>>> (assuming that we are not completely refreshing the IETF attendance >>>> every >>>> three >>>> or four years). Should not be rocket science to follow up with some >>>> newcomers to >>>> find out why they only attend once and never come back. >>>> >>> >>> For me I still did n't attend but understand that many old >>> participants are biased and there seems no equal opportunity, people >>> don't always follow the IETF mission and procedure, they just follow >>> their ways as long there was no complain. >>> >>> I call all newcomers to open a new WG and start complaining because we >>> have to discuss why we were disapointed of the IETF and IESG, and even >>> the Internet Society. >>> >>> Please note that I will focus my volunteering work in complaining and >>> fixing the discourage I found so far. >> >> OK, but if something or someone discouraged you, speak up. Existing >> members >> can't help you if you don't tell us what's wrong. >> >> Yoav >> >> >> >