On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Both of these seem right to me, but the irony is that the fear of > unknown future incumbents is all by itself creating the warm, dark > place where we are growing the things that hinder the mission of the > organization. I agree that this can be the case. That's part of the reason I believe putting energy into ensuring we share a common sense of our mission is worthwhile; it will help us avoid the desire to institute process changes that derive from a lack of trust. Those efforts will likely not be sufficient, though, to tackle other issues. EDU team-style efforts may help us with both trust issues and its resultant duck-nibbling, but they are not going to help with the structural complexity of references (a different issue raised last night). I hope, though, that we can use a common touchstone for evaluating process changes. That may help us work out what efforts are worth the time and effort not just for the IETF, but for the Internet. regards, Ted Hardie