Re: Minutes SHOULD include participants number

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Hi John,

Thanks for your advise and comments. I prefered that consensus is
documented to know its value/level as was it 60% or 70% or 80%...etc.
How do Chairs in IETF decide on the agree/disagree/no-reply from WGs

 " Note that 51% of the working group does not qualify as "rough consensus" and
   99% is better than rough.  It is up to the Chair to determine if rough
  consensus has been reached."

I see that minutes just mention WG agreed to ..., but would suggest
the value, so it does not become below 51%. Also, most participants
need more time to decide on such request from Chairs because they use
their variable-available-volunteering time to do reading/work within
each 28 days.

Regards
AB
---
On 8/28/12, John C Klensin <john-ietf@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> --On Tuesday, August 28, 2012 11:17 +0100 Abdussalam Baryun
> <abdussalambaryun@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> Reading through some IETF WGs minutes of meetings, is it
>> possible that we follow a procedure in writting minutes.
>> I think the following items are important that SHOULD be
>> included:
>>
>> 1) name of the chair, minute taker, and jabber reader.
>> 2) number of participant in the meeting room.
>> 3) number of participants at jabber.
>
> It seems to me that the latter two would fall somewhere between
> "useless" and "misleading".  I don't have any idea how to count
> "participants" in the meeting room.  The only numbers that are
> reasonably easy to capture are the number of people who signed
> the blue sheets, but that doesn't capture either non-signers or
> those who sign and then sit in the room and pay more attention
> to email or other topics than the meeting.  If we used the
> number of people signed into Jabber for anything, we'd create a
> count that was extremely easy to pack as well as not
> distinguishing between people who were on Jabber but in the
> room, on Jabber but elsewhere at the IETF meeting (conflicts or
> couldn't be bothered to attend), remote and actively following
> the meeting, or others (and there are likely to be some others).
>
> I could see somewhat more value if actual names and
> organizational affiliations were listed, but the community has
> (for plausible reasons, IMO) decided to not do that.
>
> This is just a personal opinion/request, but I would really
> appreciate it if you (or others making procedural
> suggestions/requests like this) would carefully think through
> the implications of what they are asking for and how the
> information would be used before making the request.  It would
> be even better if you then included an explanation of the value
> that you think would occur, and maybe the tradeoffs you see,
> with the request, not just "is it possible that we follow a
> procedure...".
>
> That would have an advantage for you too because such
> suggestions are more likely to be taken seriously by more people
> in the IETF rather than, in the extreme case, going unread
> because you have developed a history of bad and/or unjustified
> ideas.
>
> regards,
>    john
>
>
>


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