Re: IETF Last Calls and Godwin-like rules

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

 



On 2/17/12 1:52 PM, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 01:14:18PM -0600, Pete Resnick wrote:
The 'me too' posts do serve a purpose in
Not to me. I don't see what they add.
It seems to me that the PROTO write up has a question that suggests
they add something.  It asks whether the WG is solidly behind
something, or whether there are actually just two or three people
interested and everybody else not paying attention.

I think that is an important question to answer, because the answer to
an important question that is just (for some reason) getting ignored
by a large number of IETF participants probably shouldn't be regarded
as IETF consensus in any sense.

I agree, it's an important question to answer, but I'd suggest it is orthogonal to the worth of what I'm referring to as 'me too' posts.

If there's a conversation on a mailing list, even if it is among two or three people, I do want to know whether other people are listening (and thereby consenting) or whether they're sleeping. In a physical room, I can see the difference between "nodding of heads" and "nodding off"; not so easy on a mailing list. So, replying *to a particular point* during a discussion with the occasional, "Yup, she's right on the mark" or "I couldn't have said it better myself" or even "+1" when it comes from folks who have participated in the past is certainly a good thing, and it scales in a WG (since a chair/shepherd has a handle on who's participating and who's not).

At Last Call time (WG LC, and even moreso IETF LC), I don't find it useful. Last Call is a time for figuring out whether all outstanding objections have been addressed. If objections come up and someone agrees with the objection, or if there's an answer to an objection and someone agrees with that answer, *and I happen to know the person who is doing the agreeing*, then a "+1" might be useful as a sanity check. But if there's no outstanding objection to be answered, I don't see what "I agree this should be published" or "Me too" on such messages adds to my ability to judge consensus. I'm happy to go on the assumption that silence is consent. I'll trust that some folks have read and discussed the document.

Now, this all goes pear-shaped if there hasn't ever been any reading and having a real discussion. There's got to be some indication that some reasonable number of folks have been awake. But I can't figure that out from 'me too' posts unless I'm already well aware that those people are awake and have been participating, in which case the 'me too' didn't add anything.

In the small, 'me toos' (of a certain sort) can work. In the large, I stand by my claim: "I don't see what they add."

pr

--
Pete Resnick<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
Qualcomm Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

_______________________________________________
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@xxxxxxxx
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf


[Index of Archives]     [IETF Annoucements]     [IETF]     [IP Storage]     [Yosemite News]     [Linux SCTP]     [Linux Newbies]     [Fedora Users]