RE: Furthering discussions about BCP79 sanctions

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Todd,

You may or may not be right about whether an individual can make a decision to
disclose. In my experience they often can't, but do have the power to
request/implore their employer to disclose.

On the other hand, they *do* have the power to not participate.

BCP79 offers this choice and I make no comment about which is preferable.
However, it is clear from BCP79 that individuals have the choice and the
responsibility to choose.

Thanks,
Adrian
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of todd
> glassey
> Sent: 14 February 2012 17:43
> To: ietf@xxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Furthering discussions about BCP79 sanctions
> 
> On 2/12/2012 10:12 AM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> > Hi SM,
> 
> So isnt the real issue that of informed consent? If you dont know that
> someone else has already existing work is it their fault for not telling
> the IETF?
> 
> If so then there would also need to be some form of process identical to
> this for verifying that the people participating hold legal power of
> attorney pertaining to that work for their sponsors, or they cannot make
> any 'management decisions' pertaining to any project.
> 
> The misunderstanding in the IETF BCP78 and BCP79 documents is that
> one-size fits all for IETF participants. It simply cannot - In fact many
> participants are there to work on processes and efforts for their
> sponsors who have no legal power of attorney for their sponsors what so
> ever. This is part of the myriad of misrepresentations that the IETF and
> its parent ISOC are still trying to get the rest of the world to swallow
> IMHO.
> 
> Todd
> 
> >
> >>> There has been some discussion on this list about
> >>> draft-farrresnickel-ipr-sanctions-00.  Thanks for the input.
> >>>
> >>> The conversation seems to be partitioned into:
> >>> - discussion of sanctions and how to apply them
> >>> - discussion of measures that can be taken to
> >>>   help people to adhere to BCP79
> >>
> >> The following messages are about the "help people":
> >>
> >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ccamp/current/msg13082.html
> >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/marf/current/msg02081.html
> >
> > Yes. I've been watching those threads, and I think that some other WGs are
> > thinking of following similar procedures.
> >
> >>> Furthermore, there is some debate about who should/can be responsible
> for
> >>> applying sanctions.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >> In Appendix A:
> >>
> >>   "-  Does the large number of patents that the individual has authored
> >>       provide any level of excuse for failing to notice that one of
> >>       their patents covered the IETF work?"
> >>
> >> That should be "the individual has invented".
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> >> I suggest removing the above as prolific inventors should pay more
> >> attention to BCP 79.
> >
> > I'm inclined to agree with you.
> >
> > Others feel that there may be some mitigation in this case.
> >
> > By listing the point, we are giving the WG chairs the opportunity to
consider
> > it. They may deduce that it provides an excuse, no excuse, or exacerbates
the
> > case.
> >
> >> Section 6.1.2 of BCP 79 is about an IETF Participant's IPR in
> >> Contributions by others.   Should sanctions be considered if the
> >> individual participates and does not disclose?
> >
> > Yes. That is certainly my intention in this document. All violations of BCP
79
> > are cause to consider sanctions. The severity of the case may be judged by
> many
> > factors, and I suppose that the level of "participation" may be one of these
> > factors. I am hoping that Section 2.1 makes the first point clear, and
Appendix
> > A the second point.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Adrian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ietf mailing list
> > Ietf@xxxxxxxx
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
> >
> 
> 
> --
> Todd S. Glassey
> This is from my personal email account and any materials from this
> account come with personal disclaimers.
> 
> Further I OPT OUT of any and all commercial emailings.
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