On 10/31/2011 14:59, Joel jaeggli wrote: > On 10/31/11 14:45 , Doug Barton wrote: >> On 10/31/2011 14:26, Joel jaeggli wrote: >>> At a minimum we've got more than enough hubris to go around and if >>> inside jokes at our own expense defuse some of that I see no problem >>> with it. >> >> If you want the IETF to be an organization of insiders slapping each >> other on the back while congratulating one another on the cleverness of >> our inside jokes, this is clearly the road you want to travel. >> >> OTOH, if you want the IETF to be an open body producing standards for >> the big-I Internet, we may want to consider prioritizing clarity and >> avoiding gratuitous confusion. > > As with most speculative business one has to recognize that the process > will fail more often than it succeeds. Beyond the proccess that we apply > to the production of product, if the work product is bad then no-one > will use it. None of the above is germane to my actual point. > We can stand by the evidence prof provided the RFC series > and the existence of the big-I internet that it was found sufficiently > informative to be useful. ... neither is the fact that we've had a degree of success to date. The question isn't, "Have we done $something?" the question should always be, "Can we do better?" In the early days of what became the big-I Internet all you had was a small group of insiders, but fortunately they were able to recognize the magnitude of what they were accomplishing, and set up some processes to help it grow and evolve. We do both them and the current Internet user base a huge disservice if we do not recognize that the world we operate in now is fundamentally different from the world that they operated in. The Internet is now a crucial part of the world's communications infrastructure, and every excuse is being made at every level for those who are !us to gain as much control over it as they can. WSIS, IGF, ITU, etc. are merely warning shots ... the motivation and drive toward taking control are only going to increase as time goes on. By behaving in a foolish and unprofessional manner we are making it easier for them. Doug -- Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much. -- OK Go Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS. Yours for the right price. :) http://SupersetSolutions.com/ _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf