RE: Last Call: <draft-sprecher-mpls-tp-oam-considerations-01.txt> (The Reasons for Selecting a Single Solution for MPLS-TP OAM) to Informational RFC

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Hi Loa,

Let me answer with a counter-question. If the sole purpose of this document is to stop the development of two OAM solutions, do you think this RFC-to-be will achieve that? Seriously? The problem I see here is that we start a habit of writing "politically" motivated documents. We have this issue documented already all over the place in the form of minutes, web sites, press releases etc. I think this is enough and the right place. Let the I* and liaisons figure this out so that we all can go back to protocol design and development.

Best,

Rolf


NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@xxxxx]
> Sent: Mittwoch, 5. Oktober 2011 12:48
> To: ietf@xxxxxxxx; Rolf Winter
> Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-sprecher-mpls-tp-oam-considerations-
> 01.txt> (The Reasons for Selecting a Single Solution for MPLS-TP OAM)
> to Informational RFC
> 
> Rolf,
> 
> are you saying that if we just liaise RFC1958 to the ITU-T they will
> stop developing a competing OAM for MPLS?
> 
> Sometimes the life is simple, though I doubt that it is this simple.
> 
> My 2c's is that this a good draft and should be progressed.
> 
> /Lao
> 
> On 2011-10-04 11:16, Rolf Winter wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I think Brian makes an excellent point here. RFC 1958 already
> contains exactly the same basic message (just with far less
> (unnecessary) words). I don't think we need this document as it doesn't
> really add anything to what RFC 1958 says. I'll provide a more detailed
> review later.
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Rolf
> >
> >
> > NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road,
> London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> Of
> >> Brian E Carpenter
> >> Sent: Freitag, 30. September 2011 21:48
> >> To: huubatwork@xxxxxxxxx
> >> Cc: ietf@xxxxxxxx
> >> Subject: Re: Last Call:<draft-sprecher-mpls-tp-oam-considerations-
> >> 01.txt>  (The Reasons for Selecting a Single Solution for MPLS-TP
> OAM)
> >> to Informational RFC
> >>
> >> Huub,
> >>
> >> On 2011-09-30 20:19, Huub van Helvoort wrote:
> >>> All,
> >>>
> >>> Section 1,1 also contains the text:
> >>>     [RFC5317] includes the analysis that "it is technically
> feasible
> >> that
> >>>     the existing MPLS architecture can be extended to meet the
> >>>     requirements of a Transport profile, and that the architecture
> >> allows
> >>>     for a single OAM technology for LSPs, PWs, and a deeply nested
> >>>     network."
> >>>
> >>> This is a quote from slide 113 in the PDF version of RFC5317 and
> >> should
> >>> be read in realtion to the statement on slide 12 of the same RFC:
> >>>
> >>> "This presentation is a collection of assumptions, discussion
> points
> >>>   and decisions that the combined group has had during the months
> of
> >>>   March and April, 2008
> >>>   This represents the *agreed upon starting point* for the
> technical
> >>>   analysis of the T-MPLS requirements from the ITU-T and the MPLS
> >>>   architecture to meet those requirements"
> >>>
> >>> So the quoted text in the draft is one of the assumptions.
> >>>
> >>> The fact that there are currently *two* OAM mechanisms (and not a
> >>> *single*), i.e. one for PW and one for LSP proves that the
> assumption
> >>> was not correct.
> >>
> >> I'm sorry, I don't understand your logic. You seem to be saying that
> >> the fact that two solutions have been designed proves that the
> >> assumption
> >> that a single solution is possible was false. That doesn't follow at
> >> all. The engineering profession has a long history of producing
> >> multiple
> >> solutions where a single one was possible, and this seems to be just
> >> another such case.
> >>
> >> This isn't news. I quote from RFC 1958 (June 1996):
> >>
> >> "  3.2 If there are several ways of doing the same thing, choose one.
> >>     If a previous design, in the Internet context or elsewhere, has
> >>     successfully solved the same problem, choose the same solution
> >> unless
> >>     there is a good technical reason not to.  Duplication of the
> same
> >>     protocol functionality should be avoided as far as possible,
> without
> >>     of course using this argument to reject improvements."
> >>
> >>          Brian
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Ietf mailing list
> >> Ietf@xxxxxxxx
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ietf mailing list
> > Ietf@xxxxxxxx
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Loa Andersson                         email: loa.andersson@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sr Strategy and Standards Manager            loa@xxxxx
> Ericsson Inc                          phone: +46 10 717 52 13
>                                               +46 767 72 92 13
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