Jonne, First, I want to thank you for the clear expression in Finnish. (Maheeta! Vaikka näiden muutosten läpivienti alkaa kyllä tuntua siltä kuin jäitä polttelisi, saa odottaa perse ruvella että kukaan olisi samaa mieltä mistään, 'kele!) Too bad the English version was not as graphic. Anyway, I like your description of the issue and it helps me understand the concerns. That being said, I could probably construct a similar argument for all of the bodies that an IETF chair, for instance, has to attend. Are we really saying that under all circumstances, the chairs have to attend everything that IAOC deals with? And be voting members? And if that is too much then the entire IAOC has to delegate more of its work? Really? And if the chairs have to be voting members in IAOC, why aren't they voting members in IAB and IESG? I have some trust in the chairs ability to prioritize, delegate and engage in the important discussions. I do like your idea that IAOC itself needs to work smarter though. It should really be just a board, not the guys doing the actual work. As an outsider, it sometimes feels like you guys are doing too much. In any case, if you and Bob think this would be a good direction for the IAOC to take, can you comment how feasible it is? Has it been tried, could it be tried? (And shouldn't it already be done if it was easy?) Jari On 19.09.2011 15:35, jonne.soininen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Hi Olaf, I went through the draft just now, and I have some quite strong feelings about it. I'm sorry I'm sending my comments so late in the game. A disclaimer first: I was the chairman of the IAOC some years back, but I haven't been actively involved with IETF administration after that. Therefore, my reactions are based on the history, and I don't necessarily have the up-to-date information of today, anymore. Anyways, I thank Olaf of bringing up this real problem: the IAOC is a lot of work measured in time, and effort. At least, when I was there, I think it was too much work for people who were already busy in so many other ways. However, I think the solution is a bit "menemistä perse edellä puuhun" (== putting the cart before the horse): The IAOC should be a _strategic_ body that gives a direction for the administration of the IETF. Basically IAOC is the closest you have to the board of the IETF (financial management, asset management, management of the operations). Therefore, by design, you have the stakeholders represented in the body (the main chairs, the president and CEO of ISOC). The Trust on the other hand is everything the IETF has (as ownership - the biggest asset the IETF has is of course the community). It owns the fruits of the labour of the whole community - the intellectual property that the community creates. I think it is very clear that the main stakeholders (the I* chairs) and the main responsible for the administrator of the trust (the president/CEO of ISOC) have to be trustees and show ownership of the trust - you just cannot delegate that. Like said, I understand the problem: The IAOC is a lot of work for people who already have a lot to do. However, I think that problem should be managed without reducing the oversight of the IETF leadership over the IETF financials, assents, and other important activities. Perhaps, the IAOC should think how to reorganize, and strengthen the operational part of the IETF to reduce the burden of the IAOC. This might mean increasing the level of investment to the operations of the IETF to make sure the IAOC members do not have to be part of the operational stuff, but can concentrate on making just the strategic decisions and doing the oversight. If I would have to summarize this all into one sentence: The workload problem is a problem only the IAOC can fix, and cannot be done by reorganizing the IAOC. Sorry for the long e-mai. Cheers, Jonne.
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