--On Tuesday, October 26, 2010 10:54 -0700 Dave CROCKER
<dhc2@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 10/26/2010 9:32 AM, Ross Callon wrote:
>> There are two problems that Russ's draft may very well solve:
>> One issue with our current system is that there is no
>> incentive to go from Proposed Standard to Draft Standard
>> (since you are only going from one "intermediate state" short
>> of full standard to another "intermediate state" also short
>> of full standard).
>
> The theory that this change will create this incentive is
> exactly what I meant by charming but unfounded. Really, the
> premise here is an appealing fantasy. It presumes that the
> extra label imposes a psychological barrier, but there is no
> evidence that this is true.
>
> What this thinkin really does is to take attention away from
> the actual barriers, which others have cited at length.
>
> Working groups take too long. The IESG often takes too long
> and ADs often raise unexpected and possibly even arbitrary
> barriers. We have moved to an enormously heavyweight model.
> Timeliness is almost never a factor.
>
> Nothing gets better until that changes.
+1
>> Another issue is that increasingly each of our standards
>> relies on multiple other standards, so that RFCs can only
>> move to Draft Standard if multiple other drafts do also, and
>> it is too much trouble to move multiple drafts all at the
>> same time.
>
> This, at least, is a pragmatic point. I think there has been
> little effort to evaluate it deeply. It might have some
> benefit; it might not. Where is the archive of consideration?
+1. Moreover, if that is the problem, then we should modularize
things and address that problem. Sam and I thought we had that
problem under control with RFC 4897, but it has almost never
been used. Randy and Thomas thought they had it under control
with RFC 3967, but I think that has been applied even less
often. I think there are real downsides to eliminating the
normative reference rules entirely and would prefer to see
3967/4897 actually tried first, but, if there is real evidence
that inter-document linkages are a problem, we can change that
(again) without that being any sort of proof that the standards
track needs drastic revision.
john
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