Hi Yoav, Yes, and totally agree with you, but may be it was needed to do this exercise and stop people talking about a tourist VISA, as they can confuse others and create troubles. Definitively the only way is to make sure that the secretariat/host send the LOI NOW, not tomorrow. If they can't afford to do that, then we need a contention plan to move IETF venue to a different place. And please, note that I've nothing against China venue, on the other way around, I'm very happy we have it finally, but clearly need a quicker response to organize our VISAS, as I guess in this case, a bigger % of folks will need a VISA vs. other venues, so this becomes more critical. You know, when I complained during the Maastricht meeting that we will get it done by (if I recall correctly) August 7th, I thought it will mean "really" August 7th, but it was 13th and w/o LOI after two weeks of the registration. TOO BAD. Regards, Jordi > From: Yoav Nir <ynir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Reply-To: <ynir@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 08:25:49 +0300 > To: "jordi.palet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <jordi.palet@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Cc: IETF Discussion <ietf@xxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: Tourist or business visa from US? > > > On Aug 26, 2010, at 4:35 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > >> Hi Alexa, all, >> >> In many countries, applying for a VISA different that the main purpose of >> the travel to the country is illegal and could mean that you pay fines, get >> deported, or even go to the jail. >> >> In many countries, if you are doing both, a conference and tourism, the more >> "expensive" or "complex" VISA is the one that applies. > > Yup. Try going to the US on a tourist VISA, with the intention of also selling > some T-shirts on a street corner. On second thought, DON'T try that. > >> As we are having this discussion in a public mailing list, it is obvious >> that Chinese authorities are aware, up front, that some of us may be >> cheating when obtaining a tourist VISA if the above statements apply, as I >> guess, to Chine. > > Like in any country, I would guess that there's no monolith of the "Chinese > Authority". Even if someone reading this is planning of rounding up all > IETFers coming in on tourist visas (and we will conveniently list them on the > IETF web site), they're not the same as the people issuing visas. > >> In my case, I can't and shouldn't go for a tourist VISA as I will not be >> able to do sightseeing (already been in China before several occasions), but >> still didn't got the LOI. So what I do ???? >> >> As said in a previous message this is NOT acceptable. >> >> The only way it will be acceptable to go for tourist VISA is if we get a >> written commitment from the Chinese authorities that IN OUR SPECIFIC CASE >> (IETF attendance), it is ACCEPTABLE to go for the tourist VISA. > > Good luck with that. People in government authorities are not known for taking > initiatives like that. Ask, and you will be directed to the website, or your > nearby consulate, which will not commit either. > >> Otherwise, someone should be responsible for the expenses that may arise if >> any participant is rejected by immigration when entering China because >> applying for the wrong VISA. > > If you've attended any of the recent plenaries, you know what the IETF budget > is like. There is no "someone" to re-imburse you for lost expenses. > >> So, either: >> 1) The secretariat is getting the Chinese immigrations written confirmation >> about the validity of a TOURIST VISA for attending the IETF. >> 2) The secretariat or someone else is accepting the responsibility of the >> costs/expenses/damages implied in any participant being deported or similar >> when trying to enter China, if the reason is the wrong VISA type. > > Neither can be done. Only thing to do is to get the host to hurry up with the > LOIs. > >> >> And please, we need this NOW, not tomorrow. >> >> Last but not least, make sure that next time, for every IETF venue, we have >> this information CLEAR up front. We will avoid many useless discussions in >> the IETF mailing list and wasting time for many of us. >> > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf ********************************************** The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, including attached files, is prohibited. _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf