No, if you read my book you would see the scheme I am proposing. The problem with current MAC addresses is that they are not trustworthy. That is accepted. If MAC addresses were not trivially forged then the existing WiFi scheme would work fine. What I am saying is that if people got really serious about usability and in particular the WiFi design had been controlled by a Steve Jobs style person who demanded an absolute commitment to a first class usability approach, then we could have a scheme that did not require end-user configuration. Instead every device would have been issued with a device cert to bind the MAC address to a public key during manufacture. This is already a requirement for cable modems. The cost is of the order of cents per device if the certs are installed during manufacture. Maintenance costs get much higher as soon as the device has left the factory. The function of the certificate is to stop the MAC address being trivially forged. OK yes, if you design the protocols wrong then you can end up with Cisco being able to intercept on the wire traffic. But if you do the job right you can prevent interception even if the manufacturer defects. And as for my waist - yes there does seem to be rather more of it than there should be, but I don't think that is Dogbert's fault. I blame the cookies at IETF break time. On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Chris Elliott <chelliot@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Phillip, > In your earlier email, you state: >> >> If the designers had actual brains instead of bits of liver strapped >> round their waist by dogbert then all that would be necessary to >> securely authenticate to the network is to give either the MAC address >> of the computer or the fingerprint of the cert. > > Note that you say "either". Now you state: >> >> Of course the MAC address is trivially forged. That is the function of >> the certificate. > > Maybe you should check your waist. > Chris. > > -- > Chris Elliott > chelliot@xxxxxxxxx > > -- Website: http://hallambaker.com/ _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf