> Some folk say that we should ignore the language in the draft contract, > because it will not be enforced, except under extreme circumstances. First, > it is never appropriate for people signing a contract to assume that it > won't be enforced, especially when they cannot really know the exact > conditions that will cause it to be enforced. (The term "fiduciary > responsibility" covers this.) Second, these assurances are coming from > people who cannot speak for the hotel or the government. Hence, they are > merely guessing. This is true, however there is another path that could be taken. Let the host sign the contract. Then, engage with the PRC government, explain the situation to them, and ask them to help avoid an embarrassing situation by providing assurances in writing, to the IETF, the hotel and the host, that the government does not support/encourage taking actions against the IETF in reaction to the actions of some individuals. If individuals break the laws and violate the customs of China, let them bear the full brunt of the law, but not the IETF. Obviously this is not an easy path to take because it takes a lot of patience and probably many failed attempts at contacting someone in authority who is willing to seriously dialogue with the IETF. You could try talking to the Beijing police, you could try asking the hotel and the host for their government contacts, and you could try working through various PRC embassies. But the bottom line is that if the IETF does agree to Beijing and the contract is signed and some incident takes place at the meeting, and the hotel or government shut down the entire IETF meeting as a result, it would be a great embarrassment to the People's Republic of China. Having said that, I've no doubt that the PRC government already has some idea who could prove to be an embarrassment and those people will not get their visas delivered in time to go to the meeting. But it is still worth having the dialogue with the PRC government. --Michael Dillon _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf