Dean and all, I believe that you are correct here Dean. Further it seems to me that Certicom is in a round about way attempting to claim a near manopoly on Extractor technology. If so, I have no doubt that they will face serious challanges to such a claim. Dean Anderson wrote: > If your interpretation were correct, then we would have to say that > Certicom is not claiming IPR on _any_ IETF document---draft or > RFC---since none are listed in Section V. But I think that is obviously > incorrect---I think you have misinterpreted what should be in which > section. > > Section titles and descriptions: > > Section IV. IETF Document or Other Contribution to Which this IPR > Disclosure Relates: > > Section V. Disclosure of Patent Information (i.e., patents or patent > applications required to be disclosed by Section 6 of RFC 3979) > > Section IV lists the drafts and RFCs. Section V lists the patents. > One would not expect to find a draft or RFC listed in Section V, nor a > patent listed in Section IV. > > Extractor and other documents are listed in section IV. > > --Dean > > On Wed, 22 Jul 2009, Joseph Salowey (jsalowey) wrote: > > > While I see that draft-ietf-tls-extractor is listed in section IV of > > #1154 IPR disclosure as related material, I see that it is explicitly > > not listed in section V part C which lists what is specifically covered > > by the disclosure. I don't think Certicom is claiming IPR on > > draft-ietf-tls-extractor because it is not among the list of documents > > in section V. > > > > Joe > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On > > > Behalf Of Simon Josefsson > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:32 PM > > > To: ietf@xxxxxxxx; tls@xxxxxxxx > > > Subject: Re: Last Call: draft-ietf-tls-extractor (Keying > > > Material Exportersfor Transport Layer Security (TLS)) to > > > Proposed Standard > > > > > > With the caveat that I have recently returned from vacation, > > > and consequently may have missed some clarifications or paged out some > > > context: > > > > > > If the #1154 IPR disclosure is the final word from Certicom > > > on this document, I don't support advancing this document on > > > the standards track. My concern remains that Certicom claims > > > they have IPR that covers the document -- that is what the > > > #1154 disclosure says (section IV). The additional > > > information provided in the PDF is not helping: it grants a > > > license for use together with ECC. It doesn't say anything > > > about the use without ECC. > > > > > > The way I see it, TLS implementers and the broader Internet > > > does not gain something significant by having this document > > > published. Other IETF documents can use the TLS PRF to > > > derive keying material. On the contrary, it seems both TLS > > > implementers and the broader Internet community would be hurt > > > by publishing the document since having patent threats > > > looming over widely used techniques has stability and > > > interoperability impacts. > > > > > > I recall that Certicom was positive about clarifying their > > > intentions so maybe we can continue that discussion and get > > > something more useful than the recent disclosure. > > > > > > Speaking as TLS implementer of the document and document [1] > > > author that reference this document, /Simon > > > > > > [1] > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-josefsson-krb5starttls-bootstrap-02 > > > > > > The IESG <iesg-secretary@xxxxxxxx> writes: > > > > > > > The IESG has received a request from the Transport Layer Security WG > > > > (tls) to consider the following document: > > > > > > > > - 'Keying Material Exporters for Transport Layer Security (TLS) ' > > > > <draft-ietf-tls-extractor-06.txt> as a Proposed Standard > > > > > > > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, > > > and solicits > > > > final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to > > > > the ietf@xxxxxxxx mailing lists by 2009-08-10. > > > Exceptionally, comments > > > > may be sent to iesg@xxxxxxxx instead. In either case, please retain > > > > the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > > > > > > > > The file can be obtained via > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-tls-extractor-06.txt > > > > > > > > > > > > IESG discussion can be tracked via > > > > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTa > > > > g=16821&rfc_flag=0 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Ietf mailing list > > > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TLS mailing list > > TLS@xxxxxxxx > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls > > > > > > -- > Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? > www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service > 617 344 9000 > > _______________________________________________ > TLS mailing list > TLS@xxxxxxxx > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tls Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) 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