--On Tuesday, February 03, 2009 18:42 +0200 Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Brian, > >> Almost, because I'm not sure that the "MUST NOT publish" >> should apply to Experimental. I think SHOULD NOT is strong >> enough for Experimental; we already have a set of guidelines >> for Experimental publication. >> > > I think I agree with this. Setting my other misgivings aside, +1. However, I just tried to think about the cases in which we would want to publish something as experimental that we had concluded were OBE. (1) In the late 80s and early 90s, a large fraction of the community (probably a majority) had concluded that TCP/IP was OBE. We had an entire IETF Area devoted to OSI Transition. Fortunately, we did not shut down all of the WGs that depended on TCP or IP as this document would suggest if it has been applied at that time. (2) Using the criteria in the document, we would have shut down (or never started) any work on XMPP because it appeared at the time that the marketplace had decided on a set of incompatible and proprietary protocols. (3) Given those two examples, and probably others, I think there may be a place for publishing specifications that appear to be dead ends as Experimental or even, with appropriate disclaimers, as Proposed Standards. The conclusion that the technology is OBE could be wrong and the community and IESG should be able to make judgments about the risks of being wrong, the advantages of having alternate technologies well-specified in case the marketplace choice turns out to be unworkable in practice. So, again, I'm not quite sure what problem is being solved here and I think an argument should be made for "more good sense and judgment and fewer rules that then turn out to over-constrain us". john _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf