Re: [BEHAVE] Lack of need for 66nat : Long term impact to application developers

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Please,

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Regards

Magnus

Peter Dambier skrev:
> Keith Moore wrote:
> 
>> absolutely it's too onerous.  why in the world should an application's
>> deployability depend on the existence of a server that lives in global
>> address space -- or for that matter, on a bank of servers that exist to
>> do nothing but forward traffic?  isn't that what the network is supposed
>> to do?
> 
> That is what bothers me too. sip is mostly peer to peer, so for most
> of your communication (in megabytes) no server in a rack needed.
> 
> Email, with fixed IPv6 addresses will become peer to peer again too.
> 
> html? html is not much traffic. Many people do html hehind their NAT44
> boxes today.
> 
> There is still a lot to be done for zeroconf, so DNS still is ok
> with a server in a rack.
> 
> Oh, I forgot. For DNS you are still dependent on IPv4.
> 
> All the enthusiasts with their linux and freebsd boxes using ISATAP
> to communicate don't see a need for NAT66. It is the big guys with
> big windows servers who really need NAT66 to hide their fragile
> machines from the bad wild internet.
> 
> I am one of those poor guys who has never been told what good NAT66
> can do for him. I am still troubled by NAT44 preventing me from
> connecting with my ISATAP interface.
> 
> I am running more than one computer. That is why I am imprisoned
> behind my NAT44 and I am afraid NAT66 will be yet another prison.
> 
> I have seen with tunneling (slow as molasses) I get only a single /128.
> So I guess a bilingual router will sit on both his single IPv4 and
> another single IPv6 and keep all the traffic for himself letting
> me do the guesswork how to drill the holes I need to connect to
> the internet.
> 
> I see with IPv6 I do have to compete with my fridge and the
> central heating drilling holes to talk to the butcher, the baker
> and the oil-tanker. None of them is living in a rack in a colocation.
> They all have to drill holes into their NAT66 to talk to my home.
> 
> There is a hole industry living from selling me super excluse
> and expensive drilling machinery, I would not need if there was
> not a NAT66 in the first place.
> 
> I know NAT44 is like my front door and keeps the bad internet out.
> But it is not NAT44, it is the firewall who keeps them out.
> 
> Only a vague feeling for symmetry keeps telling me I should have
> a NAT66.
> 
> Math is telling me that need not be true. IPv4 brought us from
> point to point clothes line to 2-dimensional space spanning
> continents. IPv6 will bring us 3-dimensional space spanning
> the globe and DNT will bring us even further. I do not know if
> there is such a thing as NAT66 existing.
> 
> In  2-D space we do have trigons, squares, pentagons, hexagon...
> In  3-D space live stops with things built from pentagons.
> 
> The guys with their big windows servers behind NAT44 are living
> in a 2-D world, dreaming their 2-D dreams bout selling us
> 3-D NAT66 boxes without even knowing the math.
> 
> Kind regards
> Peter
> 


-- 

Magnus Westerlund

IETF Transport Area Director & TSVWG Chair
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