Have read all this thus far and complex problem/discussion and good to have here. I know this is heresy to many vendors but I believe the IETF should not permit at some date in the future any part of a specification to have any IPR from any vendor that is accountable to patents or royalties. In simpler terms anything we develop in the IETF is public domain in the legal context, and we do not use any vendor patents for any of our work. Just remove the problem entirely. As specs are implemented IPR added value can be done by vendors and inventors to improve and customize their product or invention to attain larger ROI in the market competitively, but the base core IETF specs are patent, royalty, and IPR free to all worldwide regardless of geography or governmental boundaries. Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion and does not reflect the view of the company I work for at all. /jim _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf