John, On 2008-04-04 09:54, John C Klensin wrote: > Ray, > > Some observations... > > (1) If someone doesn't become a Trustee until her or she is > willing to sign something, one either needs to have explicit > provisions for what happens if someone declines to sign or > willingness to sign has to be an explicit condition for > membership in the IAOC. Since several of the IAOC members are > ex-officio, I don't really see how to do the latter, but it is > probably possible. This change to the admin procedures is a no-op, since it merely repeats what is said in 6.1(a) of the Trust Agreement. So it's clear enough: someone who hasn't signed is *not* a Trustee. If an IAOC member fails to sign and is not subject to IETF recall, that sounds like an HR issue to me. I don't see what we can do in our texts, so I support the proposed change (even though it's a no-op). > > (2) Because some members of the IAOC are appointed by (or > ex-officio from) other bodies, I would prefer that, if there is > going to be a separate Trust Chair, that person be required to > be an IETF appointee and subject to recall. No matter how many > "the Chair is nothing special" rules one has, we all know from > experience that long-term (as distinct from rotating) chairs of > long-lived bodies tend to be treated, externally at least, as > spokespeople, etc. I agree that the two staff positions in the IAOC (IAD and ISOC President/CEO) should not be eligible as Trust chair, since there is no recall path. (Obviously I don't suggest that either of them is otherwise unsuitable ;-) > > (3) I don't recall seeing it before, which may be my fault, but > the provision that, if the IAOC is dissolved, the Trustees > become permanent appointments and get to determine the Trust's > fate is very unattractive. Probably the Trust and/or IAOC > procedures or charter should be modified so that, in the event > of the demise of the IAOC, the Trust falls firmly under direct > IETF control (unless the IETF itself ceases to exist). There > might be other ways to do it, but perhaps the termination of the > IAOC without other provisions should immediately add the entire > IAB and/or IESG (or whichever one survives), ex-officio to the > voting roster of Trustees for the duration. That really fills a small gap in the Trust Agreement (which talks about what happens if the IETF or IESG ceases to exist but not if the IAOC ceases to exist). I think you're correct that it could be improved, but can we separate that from the current proposed changes? Brian > > john > > > --On Thursday, 03 April, 2008 15:17 -0400 Ray Pelletier > <rpelletier@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> All, >> >> The Trustees of the IETF Trust are considering changing the >> Trust administrative procedures and seek community comment >> before doing so. The Trustees propose to take action at its >> April 17th meeting and will consider all comments received by >> that date. >> >> The proposed changes would: >> 1. Permit the Trustees to select a Trustee to act as the >> Chair. Current procedures state the IAOC Chair will convene >> and preside over the meetings >> >> 2. Recognize that the Chair holds no greater power than any >> other Trustee and therefore their vote as Chair does not >> become a deciding vote in cases where there is a tie vote. >> >> 3. Would synchronize the Administrative Procedures with the >> Trust Agreement by recognizing that an IAOC member becomes a >> Trustee upon their acceptance of the responibilties in >> writing, not merely by becoming a member of the IAOC. >> >> The proposed changes below modify paragraphs 2, 4 and 12 of >> the Trust Administrative Procedures located here: >> http://trustee.ietf.org/foundingdocuments.html >> >> Look forward to your comments. >> >> Ray Pelletier >> Trustee >> IAD >> >> Proposed Changes: >> >> Current #2 >> >> 2. The meetings shall be convened and chaired by the IAOC >> Chair, or by any >> Trustee if the IAOC Chair is not available. >> >> Proposed #2 >> >> 2. The Trustees shall select one Trustee to serve as the Chair >> of the >> Trust. The term of the Trust Chair shall be one year from the >> time of >> selection or the remaining time of his or her tenure as a >> Trustee, >> whichever is less. An individual may serve any number of >> terms as >> Chair, if selected by the Trustees. >> >> The Chair serves at the pleasure of the Trustees and may be >> removed from >> that position at any time by a vote of 2/3 of the voting >> Trustees, not >> counting the Trust Chair. >> >> The Chair shall convene and preside over meetings of the >> Trustees >> but shall have no other powers or authority beyond his or her >> powers >> as a Trustee. If the Trust Chair is not available, then any >> other >> Trustee may convene or preside over meetings of the Trustees >> in the >> absence of the Trust Chair. >> >> 4. The Trust Agreement defines the quorum and voting rules for >> a meeting. [Delete - If necessary, the Chair of the meeting >> shall hold the deciding vote.] Motions passed by electronic >> means between meetings shall be confirmed by a vote at the >> next possible meeting. >> >> 12. The Trustees are the current members of the IAOC. When a >> member leaves the IAOC for whatever reason, he or she ceases >> to be a Trustee. When a new member joins the IAOC, he or she >> becomes a Trustee [ADD - upon their acceptance in writing]. If >> at any time the IAOC ceases to exist, the Trustees then in >> office shall remain in office and determine the future of the >> Trust in accordance with the Trust Agreement. >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > IETF mailing list > IETF@xxxxxxxx > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > _______________________________________________ IETF mailing list IETF@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf