John C Klensin wrote: > if you have wild and wonderful new features, write drafts, > introduce them as separate, Proposed Standard, updates to > 2821 that stand on their own, with their own justifications. For one of the two discussed proposals, nullmx, that would be easy enough, an old I-D exists. Maybe you missed the point that I'm not convinced that this is a good idea, and I do NOT want to see nullmx as last minute addition to 2821bis. For technical reasons, not as a status question. > the former would tend to hide from the reader that it is a > new idea and one that is less tested and understood than > the balance of 2821. I don't believe the former is a good > way to proceed, but that is just my opinion. If "hiding" it deep in 2821bis is the point, trying to avoid reviews, it would be wrong. But I don't think that is what the nullmx proponents wanted, maybe they do not know that an I-D exists, or they think it is a so perfectly obvious and harmless idea that adding it to 2821bis is good. Just in case again, I do NOT support nullmx in 2821bis, and do NOT consider it as important enough to talk about it now after the 2nd Last Call, and because it's in no way strictly incompatible with 2821bis the proponents can try to revive the existing I-D later. > If you (or others, and you are clearly not the worst > offender) have new and/or wonderful ideas, write them up > in one or more I-Ds. The IPv6-Fallback issue is something that clearly would be incompatible with 2821bis-09, it is a now or never question. So what I've done is to propose to talk about AAAA and IPv6 at all in 2821bis, you've done that. Shortly after that on the DKIM list Doug said that the address fallback is really bad. That reminded me that Doug is not the first who said this, Meng Weng Wong among others also condidered this as bad and back in 2004 even proposed to obsolete the fallback in SPF. For obvious reasons not the right place, so this didn't fly. Back in 2007 I forwarded the issue to the SMTP list, in a way it was my fault that you added the missing AAAA in 2821bis everywhere, even for the "implicit MX" rule. IIRC after a short discussion, maybe involving the notorious "not for DS" way to suppress all good, bad, and ugly ideas, the topic was dropped. Doug mentioned it months later on the DKIM list again, and I said that after the second Last Call is definitely too late, and that folks supporting to remove "implicit MX" for IPv6 were a minority before (actually what I had in mind was the minority consisting of Doug and me). He nevertheless tried it, and this time here on the general list "implicit MX" was seriously discussed, maybe because the "climate" here is not so suppressive as on the SMTP list. It was not my idea to reopen this issue here, it was not my idea to close it, and whether you think that is a lunacy on my side or not, various folks said that an "implicit MX" for IPv6 is wrong, IIRC Doug, Keith, JohnL, and JohnL. And Ned for some hours. Frank _______________________________________________ IETF mailing list IETF@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf