Re: why can't IETF emulate IEEE on this point?

Marc Manthey <marc@xxxxxx> · Thu, 27 Sep 2007 00:54:41 +0200

good evening ,
there was an intersting statement a while ago in the apple streaming list that i like to share:<--->
> If you use a technique covered by a patent for your own, private
> use, you are not obliged to pay royalty fees.
> --> if you compile sources and build an executable you can then use
> them without problems for your own.
> Or, if you read a patent for a milk shaker and you built it on your own
> according to the patent and use it only by yourself , do it.
> This is an exception in the worldwide laws agreed by the WIPO.
>(research & development and private use are the exceptions agreed in the acts.)

>If I start selling milk shakes made with the patented milk shaker made on my own (or distribute video encoded using an algorithm covered by patents, but with >a freely available encoder), do I have to pay royalties?

>I believe I do ... but maybe not under the same conditions as if I wanted to sell the milk shaker itself or the compiled encoder?
> You do not have to pay royalties for the milk shake itself, except, the receipe to produce this milk shake is covered by a patent.

>Like video bitstreams. You can encode MPEG-4 video bitstreams only with mechanisms covered by a patent.
>If you encode for yourself, nobody matters. If you _use_ them in a commercial way, e.g. _distribute_ them, you are _using_
>patents. For the usage of a patent you need a license. Even if it is royalty free like H.263, you have a license.
>(Same in open source. You have a license to distribute the _source_ and sometimes the binary. Even if you do not pay anything.)

>So, of course all companies selling products covered by patents have to get a license and have to pay royalties sometimes.

>Another Intelectual Property Right (IPR) is the copyright and the "protection of utility patents".
>I.e. the form and shape of the Coca Cola bottle.

<--->
just my two cents about patents;)

regards

marc

*back to lurking mode*
 On Sep 26, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Scott Brim wrote:

On 26 Sep 2007 at 14:06 +0200, Harald Alvestrand allegedly wrote:
 Note that if:

  - Company A has a patent on nanosecond gate opening
  - Company A has issued the claim above, in conjunction with an IETF 
standard
  - Company B has a patent on the application of slow-drying oil paint
  - Company A paints their house with such an oil paint
  - Company B asserts their patent on slow-drying oil paint against 
company A

then company B will automatically be the target for an assertion of the 
nanosecond patent against all its uses of that patent, past, present and 
future, within or outside the scope of the relevant IETF standard.

It's a blanket license for use of the technology by any company that 
doesn't hold a patent, but it's definitely not a "no strings attached" 
policy.

Harald, <sigh> this again.

  - It's a blanket statement for anyone, including those who have
    patents, who agree not to assert them.  No license required.

  - You can sue any time you like.  All that happens is that this
    agreement disappears.  See the text.

  - If you don't want to be bound by a non-assertion agreement, you
    can get a license right at the very beginning.  Some people do opt
    for this.  If you have a problem with getting license-free use in
    return for not suing, you could too.

So what are you missing?  All you "lose" is the ability to use the
technology license-free AND sue the holder at the same time.

This promotes sharing of technology and joint development of the
Internet.  The only people who lose here are the patent parasites who
make a living off lawsuits, and those who insist that technology be
patent-free without actually looking at the terms of use.

Scott

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