--On Friday, 17 August, 2007 15:50 +0200 Iljitsch van Beijnum <iljitsch@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >... > Then again, misspelled fishing would be an order of magnitude > harder if banks and retailers started using S/MIME, which is > widely implemented today, but they can't be bothered, so it > looks like protocol design isn't going to save the world any > time soon. This is, IMO, an important point. It seems to be easy (relatively) to get large public providers of nearly-free email to try new, and fairly weak, ideas like SPF or DKIM. Individuals with small mail domains struggle along, resisting being forced to either give up and join up with those large providers and ideas that would inevitably make email costly to them on a per-message basis. But the key institutions that get spoofed don't, in practice, seem to care. S/MIME would work, PGP would work, and so would any other reasonable method to validate message source and integrity that depends on the message and not the transport. If the primary concern is communications between a financial institution with which the user already has an account (or equivalent relationship) and that user, we don't even have the usual PKI problems: one can deliver a sender key or cert out of band, validate it, and be finished. Not only will those institutions not bother with S/MIME or PGP, but many of them won't support subaddresses (many reject addresses containing "+", "/", or "=" as invalid, some even reject "-"). But, while it gets no where near real authentication, the ability to write a pair of rules that say * if the message comes to "john+bbnk@xxxxxxxxxxx", and isn't from an address in the "bigbank.com" domain, it is trash and can be discarded, and * if the message appears to come from the "bigbank.com" and isn't addressed to john+bbnk@xxxxxxxxxxx", then it is trash and can be discarded. turns out to be a powerful tool that is not easily defeated and that does not require multiple handshakes between recipient and putative sender. But, if the financial institutions won't support it and insist that email local parts consist only of ASCII letters and digits, then its usefulness is limited. That should, I think, make some predictions about the deployment and effectiveness of anything really new and effective. As with certain types of credit card fraud, it appears to be cheaper for the financial institutions to build the costs into their fee structure and then just eat the losses, rather than making significant investments in better systems or more inconveniences that might drive customers away. It is possible to infer from this that there just isn't enough spam and phishing out there yet to be considered a problem --a problem that needs to be solved, rather than one about which one needs to make public statements and pass laws that are either meaningless or not enforced-- by those who make and enforce laws and policies. john _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf