> If I was the isp in that situation hp has something I want and many others want. There is absolutely nothing to be achieved by threatening hp and much to be lost. Even if the threat worked the party that brought the case and paid for the costs would most likely not get the allocation anyway. When one company sues another, they often ask for damages. I am saying that if, as a result of legacy holders hoarding addresses, ARIN is unable to allocate addresses to an ISP, then the ISP could claim that the legacy holder has damaged the ISP and sue for damages. > Rather than lay out ten million plus on a lawsuit that is unlikely to achieve the desired result the isp is going to pay hp. The risk of losing the allocation while it still has relevance is nil. Now you are claiming that HP will engage in extortion. Seriously, I do not believe that senior management at HP is aware of this issue. When they do become aware of it, I strongly doubt that they will plan to engage in extortion. And when it comes to pricing those addresses that HP holds, a large ISP currently pays ARIN $18,000 per year for all the addresses that it needs. > Do not expect the courts to be as willing to step into this situation and decide it the way you think it should be decided. US judges are political appointments. Most are ideologically committed to free market arguments. First of all, the courts will only get involved if a lawsuit is initiated. When I look at all the possible players that might initiate such a lawsuit, I think that the ISP who fails to get the needed addresses is most likely. And when I look at all the possible parties that might be sued, I see that the legacy address holders are in the weakest position. In fact, HP and other legacy address holders are not playing by the rules, and people who are committed to free market arguments are also ususally strongly in favor of playing by the rules. That's why Enron was not allowed to fade quietly into the sunset. By the way, the IETF is probably the wrong venue to discuss this issue. ICANN or ARIN would be a better place to move the discussion to. --Michael Dillon _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf