Re: [Geopriv] Irregularities with the GEOPRIV Meeting at IETF 68

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In the email below, the GEOPRIV chairs express serious concerns about the process surrounding the GEOPRIV meeting at IETF 68 in Prague. In particular, they allege:

- That improper meetings occurred between the ADs and the working group participants and that this "potentially harmed the integrity and transparency of GEOPRIV and the IETF"

- That there was "the appearance that there may have been an attempt to manipulate IETF process to hold and predetermine the outcome of consensus calls" on the part of the Area Directors.

In the first place, the Area Directors take these concerns, and grave allegations, very seriously. Area Directors who manipulate schedules and agendas in order to predetermine the outcome of consensus calls should, in our opinion, be summarily recalled, and if the GEOPRIV working group chairs believe this transpired in IETF 68, we urge them to pursue such a recourse. While we speak to the particulars in detail below, in short we believe that our efforts before, during and after the GEOPRIV meeting at IETF 68 were limited to encouraging a set of participants to arrive at a consensus which was long overdue, and did not extend to steering said consensus in any particular direction. In this regard we do not believe we overstepped our bounds, either in the letter or the spirit of the process.

As indicated in my message of March 25, we agree with the GEOPRIV chairs that the hums taken in prague need to be confirmed on the mailing list. As we all know, the contents of a room in Prague are not equivalent to an IETF working group; only formal decisions of this mailing list are definitive for the working group. Too often working group minutes are published and completely ignored, which only leads to further discord down the road when participants resist that to which they are presumed to have assented. This is particularly important in this case because opinion in the room was so closely divided. So in the interests of making progress, please do review the results of Prague carefully!

To the particular concerns of the GEOPRIV chairs:

<> Agenda: The Area Directors did meet privately with members of the GEOPRIV working group prior to the meeting at IETF 68. Indeed, we met with as many stakeholders as possible, specifically to ascertain how the group could move forward on a set of contentious issues which had been unresolved for some time. In the course of these meetings we solicited input on how progress could be made at the meeting, and strongly encouraged working group members to find a path to consensus. We came to believe that focusing on core issues that were impeding progress, such as the longstanding disagreement on an HTTP- based Layer 7 Location Configuration Protocol (henceforth L7LCP) rather than ancillary issues like location signing, would be the best use of working group facetime.

While it is certainly true that the Area Directors knew they wanted to use the agenda time in GEOPRIV to make progress on core issues, if necessary at the expense of existing agenda items, there was no concrete agenda to that effect privately circulated prior to the meeting, verbally or in writing, to our knowledge. In fact, the agenda was bashed at the start of the GEOPRIV meeting by a participant, albeit one whose counsel on making progress the Area Directors had sought prior to the meeting. Critically, that agenda bash was vetted by the room, as any other agenda bash would be - this was not a change made by fiat of the Area Directors. We strongly believe that there was a will in the room to prioritize and resolve the issues which were bashed onto the agenda. We furthermore took specific hums about the preparedness of the group to make decisions about these issues, which under the circumstances were required to proceed.

<> Scheduling: There certainly were irregularities with the scheduling of the GEOPRIV meeting at IETF 68. That much said, scheduling the meeting track for the RAI Area is infamous, and last minute changes in timeslot are hardly unheard of (we had a similar one at the previous IETF). In this instance, the scheduling problem was ultimately caused by the unavailability of working group chairs. Two of the three GEOPRIV chairs, and one of the two SPEERMINT chairs, were unable to attend IETF 68 at all. It transpired that the SPEERMINT chair who could attend was unable to make the SPEERMINT timeslot due to a family obligation elsewhere in the world. As the GEOPRIV chairs note below, Henning Schulzrinne had previously been identified as a stand-in co-chair for GEOPRIV. We were thus left with the prospect of seeing SPEERMINT go forward with no available chairs, versus GEOPRIV going forward with at least one previously identified stand-in chair. We thus made a last minute decision to find the lesser of two evils by swapping the timeslots of the groups. This was a decision made at the last minute to find the lesser of two evils. We certainly didn't anticipate all of the ramifications this change would have in terms of attendance, and in retrospect, we may not have made the most best choice. The choice was not, however, motivated by a desire to prevent participants from attending either meeting.

<> Consensus calls: There were indeed quite a few hums taken in the GEOPRIV room in Prague. In fact, the manner in which the meeting was run with regard to hums was not typical for this group - hums were used liberally to hone in on areas where there was, and was not, consensus. That much said, not all of the hums were consensus calls on working group issues; quite a few hums were also taken on how we should proceed, for example (taken from the minutes):
- HUM : Are you informed enough to make this choice
- HUM: Is it important to solve that today
- HUM: Will the group accept a plurality for the decision?

This last hum in particular represented an unusual step, as the GEOPRIV chairs note. It was a step recommended by the author of RFC3929 (a document on "alternative decision making processes for consensus-blocked decisions") when we asked him how we might proceed. We resorted to this step because the room felt (based on a previous hum) that it was important to walk away from the meeting with a resolution. To one particular point:


Cullen Jennings both called the consensus
and cast the last and tie-breaking vote in the room.


We feel it is important to clarify that Cullen Jennings did not call the consensus in the room. Rather, both Cullen and Ted Hardie were independently counting the tallies for the plurality in the room (two counters were used for redundancy, with the side effect that presumably we eliminated any chance of partiality); it was in fact Jon Peterson as chair who called the consensus, on the basis of those reported tallies. Furthermore, although Cullen Jennings did cast a vote when the count in the room was completed and discovered to result in a tie, this was not the tie-breaking vote for the purposes of determining consensus. In fact, votes from the Jabber room determined the plurality, and the resulting tally did not favor the option for which Cullen had voted. To the charge that


one of the hums was called on a question not described
in an existing Internet-Draft.


That can be said of all of the process listed hums above. We aren't aware that process constrains us to make hums solely related to questions within existing Internet-Drafts.

Cullen Jennings
Jon Peterson
RAI Area Directors



On Apr 17, 2007, at 8:06 PM, Randall Gellens wrote:

All,

We, the co-chairs of the GEOPRIV working group, have received private
messages of concern regarding the GEOPRIV meeting held at IETF 68 and
the outcome of that meeting.  Upon initial investigation, we believe
there were irregularities with the scheduling and agenda of the
meeting that rise above the normal course of business within the
IETF.  It is our opinion that at this time, it is best to bring
notice of these irregularities to the working group in the interest
of transparency and for the integrity of the IETF.


AGENDA CHANGE

The IETF process allows for agenda changes during meetings.  At the
outset of the meeting, the agenda was changed substantially from the
published agenda.  This change included removing the discussion of
location signing and integrity and replacing it with an L7-LCP
protocol consensus call.  However, evidence has arisen that the
the Area Directors, Cullen Jennings and Jon Peterson, met privately with
some participants of the GEOPRIV working group to inform them
of this agenda change. Cullen Jennings is the Area Advisor to GEOPRIV.

If such meetings did occur, we believe them to be improper and to
have potentially harmed the integrity and transparency of GEOPRIV and
the IETF.  It is not proper for officiates of a working group to plan
working group agenda changes and privately inform only select group
participants.  Doing so disadvantages participants of the working
group who have not been advised of this change.  This is especially
true for this particular meeting as the agenda change precipitated 15
hums during the meeting.


SCHEDULE CHANGE

As noted ahead of time, two of the three co-chairs, Andy and Allison,
were unable to attend IETF 68.  The working group co-chairs planned
for this in advance by finding a substitute acting chair, Henning
Schulzrinne, to aid the one co-chair, Randy, who was able to
attend.  This change was publicly announced on the mailing list
before IETF 68.  However, the RAI Area Directors announced a last
minute (Sunday) schedule change which created an unresolvable conflict
for Randy.  The Area Directors executed this schedule change over the
objections of the GEOPRIV co-chairs and in full knowledge of the
conflict it created.  Additionally, the reason given was so that a
working group co-chair for another working group could attend his
meeting.

As a result of the schedule change, the meeting was co-chaired by Jon
Peterson, the other RAI Area Director.  Consequent to the agenda
change regarding L7-LCP, Henning recused himself during the latter
half the meeting, leaving Jon Peterson to solely run the meeting.
During the meeting, a few participants expressed concerns regarding
the agenda and schedule changes. These concerns were dismissed by Jon.


CONSENSUS CALLS

As noted above, the meeting resulted in an unusually high (15) number
of consensus calls for GEOPRIV.  This includes the unusual decision to
use an alternate consensus method of a plurality vote to choose between
two protocol proposals.  As noted in the raw minutes and the
audio recording of the meeting, for the call that used the
plurality voting method, Cullen Jennings both called the consensus
and cast the last and tie-breaking vote in the room.  It should also
be noted that one of the hums was called on a question not described
in an existing Internet-Draft.

The schedule change, the agenda change made known to a few select
participants in advance, and the unusual sense-of-the-room hums, together
create at least the appearance that there may have been an attempt to
manipulate the IETF process to hold and predetermine the outcome of
consensus calls. Even the appearance of such manipulation, regardless of how well-intentioned the actions may have been, threatens the integrity
and openness of the IETF.

The IETF relies on not just open, fare processes, but also
transparency that good procedures are followed.  The irregularities
are now on the record of the group, hopefully never to be repeated.

In order to follow IETF process, all resolutions put forward during
a working group meeting must be ratified on the working group's
mailing list.  The chairs will shortly be sending messages to formally
initiate consensus calls on the sense-of-the-room hums that were taken
in Prague.  Since so many hums were put forth during the IETF 68
meeting, we plan to send multiple messages to the working group
mailing list seeking ratification of the proposals.

Because of what happened in Prague, the chairs want to make very
sure that the subsequent consensus calls are very open and
non-coercive. We ask all working group participants to please pay
close attention to these calls and respond appropriately.

The first of these messages will be sent shortly.

Sincerely,

The geopriv co-chairs:
	- Andy
	- Allison
	- Randy


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