> From: Emin Gun Sirer [mailto:egs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] > My terminology is correct, and your message is a simple ad > hominem. No his argument was not an ad hominem. An ad hominem argument is an argument of the form 'Osama Bin Laden believes X, Osama Bin Laden is a bad person, therefore X is false and/or anyone who argues X is a bad person' That was not the form of argument used. There is a little acknowledged side condition to the ad hominem fallacy. The ad hominem argument is only a fallacy if and only if the truth of the proposition X has no bearing on the character of Osama Bin Laden. If proposition X is, say 'that the hirabah of Al Qaeda is a Jihad' then the argument is not a fallacy of necessity it is a fallacy of convention. "You have not observed the criteria required to gain standing in this forum, therefore its not worth listening to you" is a perfectly acceptable rule of debate. It is not an acceptable move in rhetoric, but you only get to use rhetoric after the preliminaries are completed. _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf