Of course the IETF is a non-profit entity. For-profit entities are entities whose purpose is for the operations of the entity itself to produce profits which accrue to its owners/proprietors/partners/... Non-profit entities are entities with any other purposes. Note that these definitions have nothing to do with whether the operations of the entity are actually producing a surplus or a loss. Note that the definition of a non-profit has nothing to do with whether its operations are intended to increase in the income of its members/owners/... only with whether or not it is the purpose of the operations of the entity itself to produce a profit that accrues to its owners. For example, associations of businesses and associations of workers can be non-profit even if their purpose is to increase the income of their members. You can generally categorize non-government organization by for-profit/non-profit, incorporated/unincorporated, and 1-person/multi-person. Some of the combinations of these have particular names that are typically used for them. For-profit/unincorporated/1-person: "sole proprietorship" For-profit/unincorporated/multi-person: "partnership" Non-profit/unincorporated/multi-person: "unincorporated association" */incorporated/1-person: "corporate sole", sometimes just called a "corporation", could be prefixed with "for profit" or "non-profit" for specificity */incorporated/multi-person: "corporation", could be prefixed with "for profit" or "non-profit" for specificity The only remaining combination is a single person, unincorporated, doing something non-profit which doesn't really have any special name. I have always maintained that the IETF is an unincorporated association. Exactly who a court would decide was a member of the IETF for what purpose is not completely clear. Donald -----Original Message----- From: Dave Crocker [mailto:dhc2@xxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 4:09 PM To: John C Klensin Cc: ietf@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: I understand that there is an ISO MOU with the IETF - I want to see it... John C Klensin wrote: > You are not a member of the IETF. > Todd is not a member of the IETF. > I am not a member of the IETF. > Jorge isn't a member of the IETF either. > > The IETF has no members. Not only are you right, but per se, the IETF is not a non-profit. Further most people who participate in non-profits do not fit the legal definition of "member". In the world of non-profits, that term has very specific meaning and carries very specific obligations. Hence most non-profits avoid it by having "subscribers" or the like who are not actually "members". At base, I cannot figure out why anyone keeps feeding such trollish topics, I thought it might at least be amusing to comment on the term member. d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf