Spencer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Spencer Dawkins" <spencer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <ietf@xxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 4:08 AM Subject: Please make the madness stop (was: a whole bunch of flames) > Hoping against hope that this might be the last post in the thread, but one > never knows... > > I'm following up to Carl's note, but I'm speaking to the community. You mean to this Mailing List - and only this Mailing List - you are NOT speaking to the IETF Community or to those who will be effected outside this WG by these actions are you? Why is that Spencer? > > > >> IMHO, fighting the messenger is not the proper solution to the > >> problem. > > > > The messenger accused the IETF chair of lying. No I DIDNT. I said we based on the process have no idea what to believe. If you are saying "THAT BECAUSE SOMEONE IS THE IETF THAT THEY WOULDNT LIE IF IT SUITED THEM" I would laugh and ask what you were high on. > > That is totally > > inappropriate behavior. Fraudulently accusing someone of something to allow you to harass them is inappropriate behavior. > > > > Carl > > We are not very far away from the NomCom 2006-2007 call for nominations. > That means a couple of things. > > First, continued flaming away is wasted. Andrew and the NomCom will have > more opportunity to influence things than any of the rest of us have BY > POSTING TO THIS LIST. The entire community will have an opportunity to > provide NomCom feedback on Brian, half of the IESG, half of the IAB, and one > of the two IAOC members. That feedback will have far more impact on who > serves, and does not serve, in IETF leadership than anything anyone posts to > this mailing list. > > Second, I agree with Carl that the level of reasoned discourse in these > threads has achieved a totally inappropriate level. If you are hoping to > replace some or all of the current leadership, it would be a lot easier to > do this with a large and healthy pool of nominees who are willing to serve, > and flaming away at a high rate on the current incumbents will likely shrink > that candidate pool. Please don't do that. You mean that you are against adding culpability to the processes of selection and want them to remain essentially secret or hidden. Why is that Spencer? > > If one or more members of the leadership needs to be replaced, and NomCom > returns them because no one else was willing to sign up for the current > level of attacks and abuse, we all lost. No - actually what you are seeing are the flaws in the IETF's Management Recruiting Processes. The facts that there are not three people waiting to volunteer for each position is indicitive of issues with the IETF and its value to the world. > > If one or more members of the leadership needs to be returned, and they are > replaced because they were unwilling to be called liars, we all lost. If the system is designed by this brilliant bunch of people such that it matters whether someone in managment is telling the truth or not - then we are lost. The point is that the IETF and its processes are supposed to be above impropriety or the possibility of it and they are not. > > If NomCom had the largest slate of qualified nominees who were willing to > serve that we've ever had - both incumbents and new nominees - that would be > a really good ending to this conversation. Could everyone focus their > abundant energies in that direction? No Spencer - I am more interested in focusing my energies in reforming the IETF so that it really is what it claims today that it is. The problem Spencer is that you and many others have put us in a position where we just dont know who or what to believe and many of those individuals are involved in the IETF and IPR WG's and they dont want outside criticism of their actions therein. Otherwise the Management of the IETF would be laughing and yelling back at me "OK Glassey Bring it on..." > > Thanks, > > Spencer, who is violating a commitment to myself that I would not post on > process topics... > > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf