Hi Richard,
Thanks for your comments.
See my response below, in-line.
Regards,
Jordi
De: Richard Shockey <richard@xxxxxxxxxx>
Responder a: <ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx>
Fecha: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:28:38 -0500
Para: IETF list <ietf@xxxxxxxx>
Asunto: Re: FW: I-D
ACTION:draft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria-04.txt
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote:
Hi,
Here is the original announcement and the IETF URL.
Comments please !
I'm assuming this is going to be Informational only and as such not
formally binding on the IAOC on the Secretariat.
My personal view is that this should be an Informational document, as a
guideline of the selection criteria, as I already tried to describe in the
document.
There should be no difference between this and any other IETF document, in
that sense.
My opinion is that the binding is not related to the document type, but to
how we want to manage the meetings the next years.
The point here is simple: We really need a criteria. I've proposed several
venues since 2001, specially Madrid (but also Barcelona and others in Latin
America and Caribbean), and it was successfully evaluated by a secretariat
on-site visit. However, afterwards there was no "formal" rejection of the
venue and just a comment that "isn't located downtown". However, less than
one year after that, we had a meeting in San Diego, not in down town, and I
can ensure you with much much much much worst conditions that the Madrid
venue :-( (more distance to downtown, no public transport, more expensive,
etc., etc.).
Clearly, the old document that we have in the IETF site is insufficient and
the decision is so *subjective* (not accusing to anyone, just a fact), that
the situation is not fair neither acceptable.
I've complained during years, and I guess that was the reason Brian
Carpenter pointed to me suggesting that I should write the document (not
stating that Madrid should be the right venue), and I decided to take the
"risk".
It hasn't been an easy document, I will say even more difficult than a
technical spec, but I'm glad with the result. I think is a fair document,
that demonstrates also that the IETF is evolving, maturing and we are going
to have meetings in new places and be fair with all the contributors, and
that will also facilitate newcomers to actually start and keep contributing.
I'm also very glad because I've received tens of comments, many more than
what I can see, average, in the majority of other drafts.
I tried to accommodate my perception on the consensus of all those that
contributed, and the document evolved significantly from the first release
(11th July 2005), and I hope having achieved it.
I've also put completely aside, during this time, my own target to get a
meeting organized in Madrid or other locations that I've been proposing for
years, and even may be my own proposed venues will not match the criteria
now, but I don't care, that's being fair and objective and that's really a
must for this, if we want to get it working in an objective way.
In fact that should be made explicit that nothing in this document
should be considered formally binding on the IAOC or the Secretariat and
that it only represents "useful suggestions".
I think that's precisely against the original target of the document. As
said is only a guideline, but it must be followed in an objective way.
You can read in the document:
"Generally, this document does not present a strict list of "MUST"
items. Instead, it lists what needs to be evaluated, various
alternative solutions, or combinations thereof, that may apply."
This IMHO should have come directly out of the IAOC as the subject
matter is directly within their oversight and charter.
My understanding is that the IAOC is not engaged in the day-to-day work, and
that's the reason to have the IASA, the secretariat and the IAD. But they
need community driven guidelines to be able to follow as much as possible an
objective criteria.
You can read in the document:
"In the end, the IAD will make the final decision and will be accountable
for it, and therefore he is responsible for applying the criteria
defined in this document according to the hosting/sponsorship
availability."
What is the relationship of this document to the IAOC?
The same as for any other document which is related to the IAD, IASA, and/or
secretariat, nothing less, nothing more: The IAOC is responsible of
providing appropriate direction, oversight and approval.
But guess what, they also need some guidelines if we want an objective IAOC,
right ?
Frankly there is'nt much about this document I like. It's a classic
example of the current IETF fashion for process over substance.
I don't really agree on that. The document is plenty of "juice" and
"substance". I've organized a few meetings, not so big as IETF, but some
times even for around 800-900 people and I can tell you that writing the
document has been an interesting exercise that also discovered me issues
that we generally aren't considering and need to be written down so the
process is fair, *not* because the process itself.
Now, all that said, I don't recall having heard comments from your side on
the document during all the process in any of the previous versions. It will
be very helpful that you provide them now, but please, try to be
constructive by commenting what exactly you dislike and even propose
specific text. I'm sure everyone will be happy to consider all the inputs.
Title : IETF Meeting Venue Selection Criteria
Author(s) : J. Palet
Filename : draft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection-criteria-04.txt
Pages : 18
Date : 2006-1-18
This document provides the IAD with technical and logistic criteria
for selecting venues for IETF meetings.
A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-palet-ietf-meeting-venue-selection
-criteria-04.txt
--
Richard Shockey, Director - Member of Technical Staff
NeuStar Inc.
46000 Center Oak Plaza - Sterling, VA 20166
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<http://www.neustar.biz> ; <http://www.enum.org>
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