Stewart, You address this to me - though I do not make these rules. However, I will do my best to answer your question. In the case you pose below, "almost incomprehensible" is the key phrase. Had you not qualified "incomprehensible", the answer would be no, at least IMO. Moreover, I believe there is evidence to this effect, as pointed out previously, in the fact that at least one RFC is essentially only available in PS and PDF format. However, as long as a text version is comprehensible, it should be the normative version - simply because, however hard it might be to overcome the difficulty in comprehending it for the average reader, it is not sufficient to justify making it absolutely impossible to comprehend for any specific minority of readers (at least among those "minorities" that are likely to be required to understand it). Minorities in this context inclide anyone who does not have the ability to use the needed document display tools - either because they do not have them or because they are otherwise prevented from using them. However, as must be apparent from other discussion in various related threads, this is only a minority consideration. -- Eric --> -----Original Message----- --> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@xxxxxxxxx] --> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 12:01 AM --> To: Gray, Eric --> Cc: ietf@xxxxxxxx --> Subject: Re: Normative figures --> --> --> >Yes. And, if we're talking about wanting to make the figures --> >normative, I assume we are talking about a specification. In --> >that case, it is far more important that the description MUST --> >be precise, than it is that it MAY be convenient. --> > --> > --> > --> Please can we clarify the existing rules: --> --> For a standards track document is it technically acceptable --> to provide: --> --> A .pdf that is complete (but is non-normative under current rules) --> --> plus --> --> An ASCII text in which the background material refers to --> figures in the --> .pdf but which contains the essential normative statements. --> --> i.e. Is a standards track RFC approvable when it is correct in the --> technical --> sense, even if it is almost incomprehensible without the --> text, figures and --> equations from its non-normative twin. --> --> - Stewart --> _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf