Mrs. Sandy, I think you are misunderstanding what I say. I do not complain about any culture. I say that there are different legal cultures. I say that if IETF is not only American it cannot only use the American legal culture. I say that there are legal systems where: - only the Prosecution can call someone "accused" - you accuse no one, but complain about sufferances. - the jury says if these were ture sufferances. - if you complain wrong you pay for that. this protects the right of the people. I only see that RFC 3683 permits to defame someone. I say I am not sure - even in the USA - this is OK. I say there are countries where RFC 3683 is illegal. It is a private rule. Among 4000 documents. Mr. Dean never signed appoval. 2005/10/17, Sandy Wills <sandy@xxxxxxxxxx>: > Welcome to "Anglo-Saxon" culture, If this is personal it gives a odd signal. Is this the IIETF culture? > I know, > that's what "W" wants for the US, but that's why we won't invite him > back again as president. I do not understand what this has to do with an RFC? > He is not accused (that I know > of) by any person or government of any "crime" whatsoever, worthy of > punishment, fining, jailing, execution, etc. Then you did not read his post. In many cultures it is difamatory. > He is, however, "accused" by a club member of constantly disrupting > club meetings by interrupting discussions to make speeches about > something that is NOT IETF BUSINESS and CANNOT BE FIXED BY THE IETF. This is wrong: he can complain. Not accuse. At least this is the way other cultures may see it. > Because of this, in just under a month, the IESG is going to make a > decision about whether to bar Dean from posting to IETF mailing lists > for [some time / forever]. I see you did not read RFC 3683. > I don't personally know all the facts in this case. I'm not on the > IESG and won't be involved with the decision, except the same way you > are: making sure that everything is fair, honest, and open. Yes. And this is why there is no reason to dispute. All I say is: before applying RFC 3683 let make sure it is legal. In every country we want Members. Including the USA. Let be sure the way some use it will not cost us a lot. If there is a risk, how to correct it. This seems quite reasonable? Eduardo Mendez _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf