David, Let's put this all in perspective. Every time I want to do something in the IETF, someone tells me I have to join at least one more mailing list. So I currently get more than a hundred messages every day (usually quite a bit more than a hundred). That doesn't even include the ones I have to look at because I'm the list administrator for one of those lists. Excluding the ones for the MPLS mailing list, I have to get rid of about 80-90% of the mail I get because it is frankly obscene or obviously fraudulent. Of the remaining 10-20%, I might have to ignore 2 or 3 messages on any average day because - while supposedly legitimate - those messages have no useful content. Of course, that is under normal circumstances when everyone is not on a rant about everyone else. It's not really comforting to know that other people have the same problem or worse, but they do. Hence, for me at least, extending your analogy to fit - the two students are both trying to sleep and listen to music with an artillery barrage continuously pounding away at the vacant lot next door. Why don't we do something about the real problem and stop thinking of nasty things to do to our colleagues just because we know exactly who the offender is in those cases? -- Eric --> -----Original Message----- --> From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx --> [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of --> Nelson, David --> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:59 PM --> To: ietf@xxxxxxxx --> Subject: RE: Anyone not in favor of a PR-Action against --> Jefsey Morfin --> --> --> For those who suggest that PR action is never appropriate to take --> against any person, let me suggest that rights of free --> expression are --> not unlimited. Any human right has practical limits when --> it comes into --> direct conflict with the rights of another. --> --> For example, consider two college roommates. One wishes to --> exercise his --> freedom of expression by listing to music until 3 AM in the morning --> (without the benefit of headphones, of course!). The other --> wishes to --> exercise his right to get sufficient sleep so as to be well --> rested for --> the big exam the following morning. Clearly, each roommate, taken --> individually, is exercising a reasonable freedom, but in --> this case they --> have come into conflict. --> --> While I have no opinion on the current case, it seems to me that the --> basis for any such PR decision has to be based on the --> balance of rights. --> Does the right of the allegedly abusive poster to express --> himself come --> into conflict with the rights of the other mailing list --> participants to --> conduct an orderly discourse? If such a conflict exists, --> then is the --> imposition on the many sufficiently large to justify --> limiting the rights --> of the one? --> --> --> _______________________________________________ --> Ietf mailing list --> Ietf@xxxxxxxx --> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf --> _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf