Keith, > > The implications you are drawing are exactly what is intended. When the > > document said "treat as a submission" it meant exactly that. > > > Sam is correct here - the text as written is incorrect, even if it > accurately reflects the authors' intent. You mean that you disagree with the authors' intent. That is quite different from the document being "incorrect". The document says what we meant, including the implications. If there is a factual error -- and that is what "incorrect" means -- then please state it. > > In other words, if you are coming from outside the network, you do not > > get to "relay" through the network. You can post/submit from within, > > you can deliver into the net or you can post/submit from outside. > > > This is wrong. "outside the network" is irrelevant. What matters is > whether you are authorized to use that MTA to submit messages to > recipients not in the domain(s) for which that MTA is authorized to accept > incoming mail. I gave a case analysis for 3 conditions. I believe none of them was wrong and that there is not a fourth case. If you feel otherwise, please provide detail. Again, I believe you are confusing what your own views and preferences are, with some sort of independent, objective reality. "Outside the network" is exactly what we felt was relevant. It might be dandy to phrase this as some more generic issue, but since this is an operations document, for consumption by operations people, it is phrased in a way that is useful to THEIR perspective. > > SUBMISSION is relatively recent and it's use is still only for a portion > > of the posting traffic on the Internet. From a practical standpoint, > > port 25 is still heavily used; so that the two types of traffic are > > still frequently multiplexed over 25. Hence any BCP concerning initial > > posting needs to cover both ports. > > > There seems to be some ambiguity between treating an incoming > message as a submission and using the SUBMISSION protocol. Well, I don't see the ambiguity, but I do see the confusion. Submission is a hand-off from the From/Sender user realm to the mail handling service. SUBMISSION is a particular port and service for doing submissions. The document uses the term 'submission' to refer to the hand-off step. It quite carefully distinguishes between the two ports through which submission is currently done. If you see any ambiguity, please explain where and what. > It seems prudent to clearly distinguish the two. And since treating > an incoming message as a submission has never been well-defined, the term "incoming" is what causes the problem here. For every server, every message that it receives is "incoming". that is true for msa's as well as mtas. however i suspect what you mean, here, is 'coming from outside the network'. since you earlier said that it is irrelevant, i'm not sure what your point is, here. d/ --- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking +1.408.246.8253 dcrocker a t ... WE'VE MOVED to: www.bbiw.net _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf