Thanks Geoff
Some notes below:
> On 20 May 2024, at 20:56, Geoff Huston via Datatracker <noreply@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Reviewer: Geoff Huston
> Review result: Ready with Nits
>
> My primary motivation in undertaking this review as a member of the DNS
> Directorate is to comment on the material in the document from the
> perspective of the DNS. This document does not mention the DNS
> specifically, and it is relevant to the DNS work in the IETF in the same manner
> that this document is relevant to all areas of standardization that fall
> within the purview of the IETF.
>
> More generically, as a member of the IETF, I have some small comments that
> could be seen as minor nits.
>
> 1. In Section 2.3 the text relating to "anyone who is officially
> representing the IETF, in any capacity" does not qualify the circumstances
> as to when such problematic antitrust behavior is proscribed. Do the
> authors intend this proscription be be in effect only when the individual is
> performing their representative duties, or is there an intrention that this
> proscription applies at all times to individuals who undertake such
> representation tasks? Some clarification in the text may be appropriate
> here.
>
> 2. In Section 2.3 is says: "the IETF cannot be a forum where participants
> engage in problematic antitrust behavior". What is being referred to here? I
> _assume_ this means postings to IETF mailing lists, and comments and
> comversations in Working group sessions, BOF sessions and plenary sessions
> at IETF meetings, including virtual meetings. Is this intended to encompass
> the entirety of actions that may occur at an IETF venue, or is it limited to
> IETF activities relating to standards-making. Again some clarification might
> be helpful here.
These two I categorise as the "applicability question" and we need to be cautious about that in two ways: 1) we don’t want to give the impression we only care if people break the law on our watch; 2) we need to avoid creating a separate applicability regime from the Note Well. I will discuss it with my fellow author.
> 3. In Section 4.1 there is a list of "Topics to Avoid". {Perhaps it should
> be noted that this list is not intended to be exhaustive, but is
> illustrative.
There has been significant community discussion about what topics to include in this document and just how specific to make it. Two of the major concerns raised have been that leaving things unspecified can be weaponised and that it confuses people. So this section intentionally does not say any more than it says about the topics to avoid. People are free to take individual legal advice if they require more detail or are unsure.
> 4. "All IETF participants are expected to behave lawfully" While the
> document attempts to define "Antitrust law" and "competition law" in terms
> of the US and EU juristictions the more generic concept of the prefailing
> jurisdiction is not defined, so when the document constrains all
> participants be behave "lawfrully" the question is to which laws remains
> undefined. A participant participating exclusively by mail in an IETF
> activity, and never physically leaving their country of domicile must behave
> "lawfully" according to the laws of which jurisdiction?
This was discussed at length with lawyers and the concept of jurisdiction is too complicated and therefore intentionally not included. (Non-lawyer comment follows so this may not be 100% correct but it illustrates the point ): Antitrust laws apply to incorporated bodies and so in your example it’s not the person, it’s where their employer has legal entities that the legal risk is, and possibly wider. It is therefore safer to leave this unspecified in the document and for people to take individual legal advice if required.
> I had assumed that this draft had already been subject to careful legal
> scrutiny, so I am somewhat suprised to observe these nits in this document.
I’m sure a lawyer would be equally surprised that a non-lawyer felt able to judge the level of legal review this document had gone through.
thanks again
Jay
>
>
>
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Jay Daley
IETF Executive Director
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