Re: RFC 8252 is a complete joke

[Dean W <waz_dean=40yahoo.com@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Thanks for the heads up.

You nailed it . 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Tuesday, June 20, 2023, 2:54 PM, Michael Thomas <mike@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

About 10 years ago I discovered that IETF was working on OAUTH as a

replacement for sites to need user credentials to do things on their

users' behalf, typically for use to post stuff to social media sites at

the time, but also as a convenient general login mechanism. I had a

native app I wrote and I didn't like having to store use credentials so

that seemed great. However when I thought about it it seemed there was

nothing to prevent me to still get the login credentials from the user

of my app. Native apps, like phone apps, have complete control of the UI

unlike a web browser which can be assumed to be a neutral player from

the user's standpoint. When an app asks you for your login credentials

for, say, Facebook you have to make a decision whether you trust the app

or not. With OAUTH it makes it seem like it's safe regardless whether

you trust the app or not.

It isn't. Since the app has complete control of the UI unlike a browser,

it completely controls what the user sees. There is an infinite number

of ways for a native app to game the user to get their credentials while

still completing the OAUTH transaction on the user's behalf. I brought

this up to the OAUTH wg at the time and was roundly flamed by the

working group and especially the lead author at the time (who it seems

flamed out later for seemingly unrelated reasons). The end result was a

little line or two blurb in the security considerations and the end

result is, as I predicted, that nobody would care about OAUTH use in

native apps and it would become commonplace.

Later I heard that the OAUTH wg had created RFC 8252 which at first I

thought was vindication after the hostility I was shown by the wg. I was

looking it up again today though and found out that instead of just

being an information "don't do this" it is in fact a BCP. The jist is

that native apps should use browsers to do the login. This is tantamount

to asking foxes to be nice while guarding the hen house. Or closer to

home, that RFC 3514 and the evil bit should be employed. Native apps

intent on stealing your credentials can still steal your credentials no

matter what RFC 8252 says and the user will be none the wiser.

What should be the BCP is that OAUTH should *never* be used for native

apps and that users should *always* be cognizant that an evil app can

steal their credentials just like when I specifically had to store them

for my app to do stuff on their behalf. How on earth did the IESG let

this get through? I mean seriously, this is a complete joke. Asking

people to not be evil is not security and is certainly not a best common

practice. This RFC should either be declared historic or rewritten.

Mike