I suspect focusing on details such as attendance fees etc is
missing the point.
This article provides an interesting viewpoint and appears well researched.
https://phys.org/news/2021-12-virtual-conferences-environment-inclusive.html
For some - the cost of attendance (fees, lodging, travel, time away from family) is worth what they get out of it. For many any or all of those prevents attendance. It's not the attendance fees that are exclusionary - it's the whole deal.
Even if the entire cost was covered there are still cases as mentioned in that paper:
In addition to cost, in-person events also require tremendous investments in time. These events require travel, often last multiple days, and take up all of attendees' time while they are there.
This can be a major challenge, particularly for women. For many younger workers, this period of life tends to fall around the time many are having children. This makes getting away to conferences challenging for women, said Faust, who also has two young children.So I think there's no doubt about the exclusionary nature of in-person meetings. The question is what if anything is to be done?
I'm not trying to offer solutions here - nor even point any
fingers. I suspect there's no one answer and there probably has to
be compromise.
On 5/13/22 07:41, Jay Daley wrote:
[Switching to admin-discuss]Hi Anupam
On 13 May 2022, at 04:25, Anupam Agrawal <anupamagrawal.in@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
At one point in time, meeting fees possibly was the only way to cover the costs of IETF and USD 600 was justified.
How far back are you referring to? ISOC has been contributing financially every year to the IETF since 1995 [1] so the last year I am aware of this being possibly correct was 1994.
Even more was justified even though at the risk of being exclusionary. Survival is important than optics.
But now, As on Dec-20, IETF LLC had 19M USD (19,301,645 $) in stock investments yielding 2M USD in Investment income. Any stock market invest has a risk attached to it. Interestingly, the auditor points out that IETF bank deposits of 477K USD is beyond the insurable limit and thus has a risk.
I don’t understand what relevance our current investment risk profile has to this issue?
Possibly an opportunity to correct the exclusionary trend.Do you have any data on this exclusionary trend?
It’s not clear to me what possibility you see here, but I think you are suggesting a reduction in the meeting fee rather than say travel grants. When this has been discussed previously, multiple community members have noted that the fee is a relatively small part of the total cost of meeting participation in comparison to travel and accommodation. It is therefore questionable as to what benefit would be achieved by always running our meetings at a loss if the effect on participation was marginal.
--Anupam
On 10-May-2022, at 9:10 AM, George Michaelson <ggm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I used a US inflation calculator. in 2007 IETF registration cost $600.
2022 would be $830 if it simply kept pace with the CPI adjustment to
the dollar.
So the "$700 is reasonable" has a basis in 15 years practie. When did
we become so exclusionary? at least 15 years ago.
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf-announce/JUByvYCkSb2WDSt9h4lDkaoe9gc/
-G
On Tue, May 10, 2022 at 1:17 PM Keith Moore <moore@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 5/9/22 23:07, John Levine wrote:
Could you give us a specific dollar limit for a reasonable price?
This is going to vary a lot from one person to another, but offhand I'd
say that $1000/meeting for hotel and entry fee combined (not including
travel) is a good goal for meetings in North America.
The early bird fee is $700. $300 for a week's hotel?
Why is $700 reasonable either? How have we let IETF become so exclusionary? Is that really consistent with IETF's mission?
Even if we tried to go the cheap route and find a college campus
that would host us for free, when I look for places near our
local campus they're a lot more than $75/night.
I don't know where you're from. But I know many places where decent, safe, clean rooms can be had for around $75/night. Granted, they're less likely to be in large cities, but sometimes they're within reasonable commuting distance of city centers.
Keith
