Eliot, EL> Dave, >> RRSh> But of course the whole point is that we don't need this.. at least >> RRSh> not with SCTP >> >> There is a small matter of getting 500 million hosts to convert to >> SCTP and then to convert all Internet applications over to it. EL> I think this argument can be taken too far. Yes, there are 500 million My note was prompted by a desire to make sure the adoption issues were considered explicitly. It is always tempting to see an existing solution and simply direct everyone to use it. We should pay close attention to the types of changes that will be needed for adoption. As you note, the difference between "useful for the first two adopters" versus "not useful until almost everyone adopts" is an example of an essential point of analysis. Similarly, it's useful to ask what parts of an implementation must change, in order to adopt the solution. Is it ok to have to change all applications? Is it ok to have to change the networking infrastructure? And so on. And then, lastly, we need to look at the particular choice being offered. I don't have an opinion about whether SCTP should be the TCP replacement -- and I guess the UDP replacement -- but that seemed to be the suggestion. d/ -- Dave Crocker <dcrocker-at-brandenburg-dot-com> Brandenburg InternetWorking <www.brandenburg.com> Sunnyvale, CA USA <tel:+1.408.246.8253>