Hi Toerless, Thanks. RFC 8713 (BCP 10) says If a selected volunteer, upon reading the announcement with the list of selected volunteers, finds that two or more other volunteers have the same affiliation, then the volunteer should notify the Chair who will determine the appropriate action. When Luigi informed me of his new affiliation, there were two potential actions that I thought would be appropriate: 1. Consider Luigi as the 3rd Huawei person (since his affiliation had only just been changed in my list) and therefore disqualify him. 2. Change Luigi's affiliation and sequentially go through the list to determine impacts. This would result in Tal's disqualification. Since Luigi indicated he would prefer to be the disqualified person (because the error was his), I originally chose option 1. Given Mike's challenge, subsequent discussion on the list, and advice from Victor and Suresh (formal advisors), I came to the conclusion that a significant number of people did not agree that option 1 was appropriate. If Option 1 stood, it could potentially allow some "gaming" of the system. Therefore, I determined that Option 2 was the only appropriate action. I was and am convinced that Option 2 is "an" appropriate action. I am also now convinced that it is "the" appropriate action in this case. Therefore, I stand by what I said to conclude the previous challenge: "The random selections should have been done with Luigi's affiliation listed as "Huawei". We will be proceeding with the outcome that would have resulted from the selection being done with the correct affiliation." RFC 8713 grants me the task of determining the appropriate action. I have done so. My resolution to your challenge is to take no action. Barbara Barbara Stark nomcom-chair-2020 at ietf dot org > -----Original Message----- > From: Toerless Eckert <tte@xxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 12:30 PM > To: STARK, BARBARA H <bs7652@xxxxxxx>; nomcom-chair-2020@xxxxxxxx > Cc: 'Michael StJohns' <mstjohns@xxxxxxxxxxx>; ietf@xxxxxxxx > Subject: Challenge from TE: Updated Nomcom 2020-2021: Result of random > selection process > > Dear NomCom chair, > > I challenge your characterization of "the random selection should have been > done with..." > as a justified ecision reason. > > I do not think there is adequate evidence from the RFCs that that > characterization is a mandatory interpretation of the RFC. I am not the only > one who said so. > > I have also asked, but i have seen NO further attempt to cite sentences from > the RFC to prove that this is a necessary reading of the RFCs, so for all intent > and purpose, instead, my questions and input have been explicitly been > ignored. > > Therefore unfortunately, i must challenge the reasoning of your decision. > > In my reading of the relevant RFCs as well as the "spirit of the rules", there is > no clear evidence as to how NomCom chair should decide in this situation. > You declaring that there is would create inacceptable case law for one, in > opinion non-preferrable option. > > Cheers > Toerless > > On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 07:50:25PM +0000, STARK, BARBARA H wrote: > > I???m resolving this challenge as follows: > > > > The random selections should have been done with Luigi???s affiliation > listed as ???Huawei???. We will be proceeding with the outcome that would > have resulted from the selection being done with the correct affiliation. > > > > That result is > > > > 65. Dirk Kutscher, University of Applied Sciences Emden/Leer > > > > 114. Ketan Jivan Talaulikar, Cisco Systems, India > > > > 127. Christopher Wood, Cloudflare > > > > 38. Xuesong Geng, Huawei > > > > 121. Rüdiger Volk, no affiliation > > > > 86. Gabriel Montenegro, Independent > > > > 18. Pablo Camarillo, Cisco Systems > > > > 58. LUIGI IANNONE, Huawei > > > > 13. Chris Bowers, Juniper Networks > > > > 94. Tony Przygienda, Juniper > > > > > > > > Disqualified selections are noted below: > > > > 96. Reshad Rahman, Cisco (Maximum Number of 2 for Cisco reached) - > > 10th in randomness order > > > > 85. Tal Mizrahi, Huawei (Maximum Number of 2 for Huawei reached) - > > 11th in randomness order > > > > > > > > Luigi has already expressed his willingness to serve. > > > > > > > > I???ll be posting this update to the Announcement list. > > > > > > > > I realize this won???t make everyone happy. I also realize there is no > solution that would make everyone happy. However, this is the exact result > presented by the previously advertised random selection process. There had > been an offer by Luigi to step aside *iff* that would have resulted in Tal > being allowed to serve. Since this would not result in Tal being allowed to > serve, Luigi is not stepping aside. > > > > > > > > Thanks to all who advised me in this decision. > > > > Barbara > > > > > > > > > > From: Michael StJohns <mstjohns@xxxxxxxxxxx> > > Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 11:05 AM > > To: ietf@xxxxxxxx; NomCom Chair 2020 <nomcom-chair-2020@xxxxxxxx> > > Subject: Challenge: was Re: Updated Nomcom 2020-2021: Result of random > > selection process > > > > Hi - > > > > I hate to do this, but I'm going to be challenging this particular > > outcome as it > isn't strictly following the rules - basically, Luigi may not be replaced by Tal. > He either serves, or if he declines to serve, the next person on the list - not > Tal - will be selected. > > > > Here's my reasoning: > > > > After Luigi belatedly indicated his association with Huawei, the > > defined > process results in him remaining on the list but Tal being disqualified (as there > being 2 previous Huawei people selected before him). If Luigi - at a later > time - decided he couldn't serve, we don't reach back on the list for the > previously disqualified people, we look forward - e.g. Tal once disqualfied is > no longer a candidate for future pulls. If the next selected (#13 I think) is > Huawei, they could serve as Luigi's departure would move the Huawei count > back down to 1. > > > > The whole idea of this random draw is that people can't pick and > > choose to > substitute someone else for themselves. Ideally, we would do a new > random number generator for each additional selection rather than > continuing down the list to completely eliminate those possibilities, but in the > current model, I believe Tal is disqualified and will stay that way. > > > > If Luigi still wants to remove himself, then the next selectee will be > > the one > in the 13th position, not Tal in the disqualified 8th. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > On 7/8/2020 1:09 PM, NomCom Chair 2020 wrote: > > > > Luigi Iannone has informed me his affiliation has recently changed to > "Huawei". That would make 3 Huawei people, which means one must be > disqualified. > > > > Luigi requested that, since he was the person who didn't mention this > > prior > to selection, he should be the one removed. I have no problem with this, so I > will honor this request rather than removing Tal Mizrahi (as the last of the > Huawei people selected). > > > > > > > > So, here is the updated list: > > > > > > > > 65. Dirk Kutscher, University of Applied Sciences Emden/Leer > > > > 114. Ketan Jivan Talaulikar, Cisco Systems, India > > > > 127. Christopher Wood, Cloudflare > > > > 38. Xuesong Geng, Huawei > > > > 121. Rüdiger Volk, no affiliation > > > > 86. Gabriel Montenegro, Independent > > > > 18. Pablo Camarillo, Cisco Systems > > > > 13. Chris Bowers, Juniper Networks > > > > 85. Tal Mizrahi, Huawei > > > > 94. Tony Przygienda, Juniper > > > > > > > > Disqualified selections are noted below: > > > > 58. LUIGI IANNONE, Huawei (Maximum of 2 for Huawei reached) - 8th in > > randomness order, but requested to be the one removed > > > > 96. Reshad Rahman, Cisco (Maximum Number of 2 for Cisco reached) - > > 10th in randomness order > > > > > > > > With this updated announcement, the challenge period continues through > Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 23:59 UTC, wherein the community may > challenge the results to the NomCom Chair (in writing, by email). See RFC > 8713, Section 4.17 for details. > > > > > > > > I will be contacting the selected volunteers to ensure they remain > > willing > and available to serve. > > > > > > > > Random selection data used: > > > > > > > > ** Random Source 1 - EuroMillions Lottery ** > > > > ** Date - Tuesday July 7, 2020 ** > > > > EuroMillions Lottery Results > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.euro- > 2Dmillio > > ns.com_results&d=DwIDAw&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=LoGzhC- > 8sc8SY8Tq4vr > > > fog&m=PD5MBwgsYGxSdufktQADc8y_UWUwC1iiDkZUYgwxyxQ&s=oHoPnm > Ca5mmQ-oN3n5 > > 9Wsv5zPb-f8x7aN6ZpGUEl_qE&e= > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.euro- > 2Dmilli > > ons.com_results&d=DwMDaQ&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=LoGzhC- > 8sc8SY8Tq4v > > rfog&m=Kmz55mCAbYcwQokqhilIeD6l59sDatn- > ogy4_dBIwKs&s=T4EtTVu0SmEhyNsCI > > 2c6AoClponDEmHYAJEYVKeNpdU&e=> > > > > Tuesday, July 7, 2020 Results (drawn after 21:00 CEST): > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.euro- > 2Dmillio > > ns.com_results_07-2D07-2D2020&d=DwIDAw&c=LFYZ- > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=LoGz > > hC- > 8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=PD5MBwgsYGxSdufktQADc8y_UWUwC1iiDkZUYgwxyx > Q&s=Y6p > > NUyUReH2WN1KrwgtdRXmROrP9gxCEfWRyx7M6LIc&e= > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.euro- > 2Dmilli > > ons.com_results_07-2D07-2D2020&d=DwMDaQ&c=LFYZ- > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=LoG > > zhC-8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=Kmz55mCAbYcwQokqhilIeD6l59sDatn- > ogy4_dBIwKs&s=q0 > > oa9Oxdsc170H68e6YrNVtxVMOf_Hfc-VR0rh5oKtA&e=> > > > > (7 numbers, including the star balls: 5 numbers between 1 and 50 and 2 > > star balls between 1 and 12) > > > > > > > > 12 16 23 33 41 8 10 > > > > > > > > ** Random Source 2 - US Total Debt ** > > > > ** Date - Monday July 6, 2020 ** > > > > US Total Debt > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__www.treasurydirec > > t.gov_govt_reports_pd_pd-5Fdebttothepenny.htm&d=DwIDAw&c=LFYZ- > o9_HUMeM > > TSQicvjIg&r=LoGzhC- > 8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=PD5MBwgsYGxSdufktQADc8y_UWUwC1iiD > > kZUYgwxyxQ&s=R4hOKmlPzOJcdHYcN0_XSuCzy3i5DVQq-N8bt7gCawo&e= > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__www.treasurydire > > ct.gov_govt_reports_pd_pd- > 5Fdebttothepenny.htm&d=DwMDaQ&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMe > > MTSQicvjIg&r=LoGzhC- > 8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=Kmz55mCAbYcwQokqhilIeD6l59sDatn- > > ogy4_dBIwKs&s=7IIaUt1Sz-yfabMc3DJVKbqFIYP6MOOJRi9VqbHqhVo&e=> > > > > Monday July 6, 2020 (as published after 3pm EDT on Tuesday July 7): > > > > (Last 8 digits entered as a single number, ignore the commas and > > periods -- 6 digits before the period and 2 digits after) > > > > > > > > 23703560 > > > > > > > > ** Random Source 3 - Australian TattsLotto ** > > > > ** Date - Saturday July 4, 2020 ** > > > > TattsLotto Results > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__thelott.com_tatts > > lotto_results&d=DwIDAw&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=LoGzhC- > 8sc8SY8Tq4vrf > > og&m=PD5MBwgsYGxSdufktQADc8y_UWUwC1iiDkZUYgwxyxQ&s=3T- > bZDK7a6EawJUudBt > > mukgi1qXhFaZ-a0V50sToxcE&e= > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__thelott.com_tatt > > slotto_results&d=DwMDaQ&c=LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=LoGzhC- > 8sc8SY8Tq4vr > > fog&m=Kmz55mCAbYcwQokqhilIeD6l59sDatn- > ogy4_dBIwKs&s=4hYByJ5ItJl3FdGvkJ > > rtOFoM7iQM92H23pspU-B8oTc&e=> > > > > Saturday July 4, 2020 results: > > > > (6 winning numbers, between 1 and 45; no Supps numbers) > > > > > > > > 17 31 33 35 39 42 > > > > > > > > ** Random Source 4 - Emirates Loto ** > > > > ** Date - Saturday July 4, 2020 ** > > > > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__www.emiratesloto. > > com_loto_winningnumber_previous&d=DwIDAw&c=LFYZ- > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=Lo > > GzhC- > 8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=PD5MBwgsYGxSdufktQADc8y_UWUwC1iiDkZUYgwxyx > Q&s=o > > FbqjPn-OilF2dm8dKCsTz5PO_XAnwfoehohzDCogX8&e= > > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- > 3A__www.emiratesloto > > .com_loto_winningnumber_previous&d=DwMDaQ&c=LFYZ- > o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=L > > oGzhC-8sc8SY8Tq4vrfog&m=Kmz55mCAbYcwQokqhilIeD6l59sDatn- > ogy4_dBIwKs&s= > > Jz5BnZcDwDSOGVroijrf71c5R2UIcrcQNWtP7TtH3Us&e=> > > > > Saturday July 4 results: > > > > (6 winning numbers, between 1 and 49) > > > > > > > > 10 20 21 24 26 34 > > > > > > > > --------------- tool output ----------- > > > > Key is: > > > > 8.10.12.16.23.33.41./23703560./17.31.33.35.39.42./10.20.21.24.26.34./ > > > > index hex value of MD5 div selected > > > > 1 270D83B3AFE172BE3DAE13D5AFE10025 143 -> 65 <- > > > > 2 FE6FBE4A6FCAEFD6570D957596C0BC9A 142 -> 114 <- > > > > 3 AD10AAF6B527062D0E2F0E7B29AD3546 141 -> 127 <- > > > > 4 8614C1D4C4EBFACE6A5049AF1F9782CD 140 -> 38 <- > > > > 5 7D1EE81F1788AEA0FF359230F8096076 139 -> 121 <- > > > > 6 E7013327C78EA666CFA0ADD69E017D37 138 -> 86 <- > > > > 7 67135E88868DFC359459BF509920ACBD 137 -> 18 <- > > > > 8 ADDCDE6B8985E911E19CC6107B587597 136 -> 58 <- > > > > 9 D520F04487BA1AFE92B49AE7C613A7D0 135 -> 13 <- > > > > 10 4CC1EA463D3BC82C7009830F8ACDF431 134 -> 96 <- > > > > 11 9366F9278BD4CEE289093677432B2C03 133 -> 85 <- > > > > 12 A60E734755D605CD1189716F7FB1183E 132 -> 94 <- > > > > > > > > Barbara Stark > > > > nomcom-chair-2020 at ietf dot org
