> Nathaniel Borenstein wrote: > Pardon me if I'm missing something obvious here, but > couldn't one just use either XMPP or Simple for presence, > associate your "server name" with a Jabber/Simple ID, and > automatically have your "server" findable via these > general presence protocols? One not only could, but does. http://www.pulver.com/fwd/index.html Nice IP phones are quite inexpensive these days too. https://secure.pulver.com/pulverinnovations/order_grandstream.html > Why isn't that a reasonable approach to peer to > peer in a NAT world? It is, although it could use some polishing. That's not the issue; you still don't have a free bridge to the PSTN, there is no way to regulate telemarketers, does not work when the power fails, if your kids have kazaa open voice quality stinks because kazaa gobbles it all. I pay 5 bucks for long distance a month, explain me why I should bother? Michel.